The best solid body guitar for jazz

[Tal_175]

Because it's fun to watch comparison videos:

[zdub]

Never saw her channel before. Really good job at comparing the different guitars. But is it fair to take different amp settings out of the equation?

[John A.]

Playing solo is not a good test of whether a guitar works well for jazz. Solo, those all sound good, and all provide interesting colors for different approaches and arrangements. The only real test is in a live group setting. All else is just youtube mucking about in varying degrees of enjoyability.

[citizenk74]

When I took my '86 PRSCU24 to our jazz jam, I got complements on the tone not only from the horn guys and the percussionists, but also from the notoriously hard-to-please pianist as well. This was playing through my usual DRRI, tones set to zero, a touch of reverb, and using the sweet switch on the PRS, which emulates the high-end roll-off of a 40 foot guitar cable. Front pickup mostly, with digressions to the bridge pup and position four with/without the sweet switch for funkier stuff.*

* Funnily enough, positions two and four act differently to the other positions re: the sweet switch - rather than subtracting highs in those two positions, the highs seem to be enhanced. Tonally versatile!

[rpjazzguitar]

This is a very well done comparison.

She played the guitars with everything open and then again after adjusting to the best possible "Jazz tone", which I think is a good way to do it.

She correctly called out high E string fizziness, which drives me crazy and may not be fixable, depending on the guitar. A lot of guitars, including Gibsons, can have the problem, but not all. I can't explain it. I've posted about it before.

I thought all the guitars sounded good on chords. I thought the Les and the PRS sounded best on single notes, mostly because they had less fizz on the high E.

I agreed with her conclusions about sound at the end of the video. Conclusions about comfort are less relevant because it depends a lot on the physiology of the individual. I thought the Eastman sounded better than the solids, and I say that as a player who doesn't play full body archtops (because I can't get the sustain I want out of the high notes).

Aside: About high E fizz: When I first got my 2009 Korean D'Angelico EXDC it had no fizz at all, which is what I loved about the guitar. Before that, I'd had the problem in a 1974 Les Paul Std and two L5S's (the solid body).

After a few years as my main instrument, the EXDC seemed to develop some fizz. Gary Brawer and Hideo Kamimoto couldn't get rid of it.

I went back to the L5S for awhile, tolerating the fizz.

Later, I got a Comins GCS-1. Played thru the Little Jazz, it doesn't fizz. Played acoustically, I can hear a little.

So, what didn't help? Heavier gauge E string. Pickup height. Polepiece height. New bridge. EQ (you may be able to dial out some fizz, but you harm the overall tone).

What did help? New guitar and the LJ amp. Change the E string more often. Next time you remove a string, when it's off the guitar, take a moment to run your finger over its length. You may feel a kink in the string corresponding to each fret. I assume those kinks don't make the guitar sound any better.

[zdub]

Never heard of it described as fizz before, but that's the perfect word.

[Stringswinger]

I have owned a PRS (Custom 22), two Teles (Both 52 reissues) and lots of Strats and Lesters (I still have a Strat and a Lester in my harem). All are just fine for jazz, though, IMO, a 175 or L-5 smokes them all. But for outdoor gigs in changing weather, a solid body is a very useful tool (they hold tune better than a hollow body). My preference of the solid bodies for jazz is the Lester, as I like the 24.75 scale, but with heavy strings (12's) and a humbucker in the neck position, the Strat and Tele can do every thing the Lester (and PRS) does, tone wise. For playing a three hour gig standing up, it is hard to beat the Strat.

@rpjazzguitar: Rick, I thought your Les Paul and L-5 S both sounded great for jazz back in the late 70's when we played together regularly. I have found that the high E string fizz you don't like comes from a variety of sources, to wit, corroded E strings (that string should be changed often), less than perfect fret work (polishing the frets at every string change helps) and improperly adjusted pole pieces.

[rpjazzguitar]

I have owned a PRS (Custom 22), two Teles (Both 52 reissues) and lots of Strats and Lesters (I still have a Strat and a Lester in my harem). All are just fine for jazz, though, IMO, a 175 or L-5 smokes them all. But for outdoor gigs in changing weather, a solid body is a very useful tool (they hold tune better than a hollow body). My preference of the solid bodies for jazz is the Lester, as I like the 24.75 scale, but with heavy strings (12's) and a humbucker in the neck position, the Strat and Tele can do every thing the Lester (and PRS) does, tone wise. For playing a three hour gig standing up, it is hard to beat the Strat.

@rpjazzguitar: Rick, I thought your Les Paul and L-5 S both sounded great for jazz back in the late 70's when we played together regularly. I have found that the high E string fizz you don't like comes from a variety of sources, to wit, corroded E strings (that string should be changed often), less than perfect fret work (polishing the frets at every string change helps) and improperly adjusted pole pieces.

I've tried very combination of pickup height and polepiece height, to no avail with respect to the fizz. I agree about changing the E string often - new strings fizz less.

As far as fretwork goes, I suspect that's right -- or the EXDC would not have developed fizz over time. But, if Hideo Kamimoto and Gary Brawer can't do the fretwork well enough, what are you going to do next, reanimate Lloyd Loar?

I think you were playing a 175 back then? Is that right? I recall it sounded great -- and not that much different on melody from what I was playing. I can't recall the sound on chords from back then. These days, I prefer the archtop sound for chords (when I hear others do it). I'm happy with the semi for soloing.

[Joeontheguitar]

What is fizz? Those ear piercing frequencies?

[Peter C]

Unless that Lester is chambered, I doubt that she'd be calling it "comfortable" after 30 mins or so (seated) They sound great with flatwounds IME, by the way, with the quicker note decay.

I like Nir Felder's Strat jazz sound with standard pups, but he's using bigger strings and a hint of (amp?) OD. A single coil sized HB can also help.

That "fizziness" she's describing is mostly due to the light gauge strings and a low action. HBs may mask that somewhat...

When Ed Bickert, btw, swapped from single coil to HB in the neck pos, he sounded practically the same LOL.

Anyway, she's playing some airy, light chord melody stuff and so we don't hear how they sound digging in. I think she said the Eastman is strung with 12s, probably flats, so.......

[Stringswinger]

I've tried very combination of pickup height and polepiece height, to no avail with respect to the fizz. I agree about changing the E string often - new strings fizz less.

As far as fretwork goes, I suspect that's right -- or the EXDC would not have developed fizz over time. But, if Hideo Kamimoto and Gary Brawer can't do the fretwork well enough, what are you going to do next, reanimate Lloyd Loar?

I think you were playing a 175 back then? Is that right? I recall it sounded great -- and not that much different on melody from what I was playing. I can't recall the sound on chords from back then. These days, I prefer the archtop sound for chords (when I hear others do it). I'm happy with the semi for soloing.

Rick, as far as fretwork goes, Ralph Novak was the best I ever came across. I have had Gary Brawer work on my stuff (he is good, to be sure), but nobody could touch Ralph, IMO.

I was playing a 175 way back in the day, and all these years later, after owning scores of guitars, including L-5's, a Super 400 and several genuine D'Angelicos, the 175 is still my weapon of choice (I have three blonde 175's that do most of my gig work these days). My memory is that your solidbody guitars had more sustain on the single note lines and my 175 had more definition on the chords. In theory, a semi (like a 335) should be able to split the difference in both areas, but after trying many semi's, I have decided that they are not for me. The 175 works real well for me as a jazz guitar. I suspect many other jazz guitarists have arrived at a similar conclusion.

[EastwoodMike]

I wonder if Sandra used D'addario Flat wounds instead of rounds, - how close that 'Lester would have sounded!
It's rare that you see anyone on Youtube play an LP clean on the neck and without a stack of drives in front of their drive channel.
Sounded really good.

That hollowbody is also fully carved. I cant imagine people play that in a band setting without some significant feedback challenges.

Nice Video, enjoyed it.
I think setting the strings all the same, the amp and signal path the same and playing full open really allowed you to establish some datums and hear the individual base character of each guitar. That said I wonder if the results would be comparable at a stage volume?

One think I noted was that the strat had no floating bridge- strung like a tele through the body. I have a Strat and I have 4 springs on, with the "trem" (vibrato) set quite stiff. It gives the instrument some nice warm natural resonance/reverb in a way having the springs vibrating under tension. I have no idea if this changes any fizziness though. I'll need to have a look now....
I'm pretty sure changing the pickups or wiring on a strat has a huge difference too. I normally play in position 4 (neck & mid) which cancels out noise, but tweaks the tone as well. But there are at least a dozen ways you could wire a strat pickup/tone/volume combinations as well.

Cheers
M

[lammie200]

Never saw her channel before…

I have been a subscriber for a while. She is really good at teaching as well.

[rpjazzguitar]

Rick, as far as fretwork goes, Ralph Novak was the best I ever came across. I have had Gary Brawer work on my stuff (he is good, to be sure), but nobody could touch Ralph, IMO.

I was playing a 175 way back in the day, and all these years later, after owning scores of guitars, including L-5's, a Super 400 and several genuine D'Angelicos, the 175 is still my weapon of choice (I have three blonde 175's that do most of my gig work these days). My memory is that your solidbody guitars had more sustain on the single note lines and my 175 had more definition on the chords. In theory, a semi (like a 335) should be able to split the difference in both areas, but after trying many semi's, I have decided that they are not for me. The 175 works real well for me as a jazz guitar. I suspect many other jazz guitarists have arrived at a similar conclusion.

I think that's right. I tend to like the way archtops sound on chords. Although, there seem to be players who can get anything out of anything.

Oddly enough, after all these years I finally noticed that playing with the thumb, Wes style, with the right hand fingers splayed like Wes, not curled under, produces a more pleasing sound, to my ear. I think the change in the angle of the thumb as it contacts the strings makes a surprising amount of difference.

[L50EF15]

Excellent comparison video, with a good example of why I prefer Teles to Strats and Les Pauls to Teles: the mids. Teles have more midrange girth than Strats, and Les Pauls have more than both. None of the instruments here sounds bad, and the PRS was very impressive; unsurprising to me as I have a Tony Purrone album where he’s using a PRS Custom 22 or Custom 24. But the LP sounds the most like the archtop to me, followed by the PRS.

[Flat]

None of the instruments here sounds bad, and the PRS was very impressive; unsurprising to me as I have a Tony Purrone album where he’s using a PRS Custom 22 or Custom 24. But the LP sounds the most like the archtop to me, followed by the PRS.

I'd like to hear that. Do you happen to remember the name of the album, L50EF15? I skimmed YouTube but Tony seems to mostly play a Gibson 335 type of guitar. Thanks.

Added later: Never mind. Think I found it. Cheers.

[L50EF15]

I'd like to hear that. Do you happen to remember the name of the album, L50EF15? I skimmed YouTube but Tony seems to mostly play a Gibson 335 type of guitar. Thanks.

Added later: Never mind. Think I found it. Cheers.

Yup. That’s it. Killer trio session.