Gibson Tal Farlow question

[Gitterbug]

Bought - almost rescued - a pristine Gibson Tal Farlow a few moths ago. The original PUs are now back and the guitar was set up by the best tech in town. D'Addario .12 Chromes. I've been away much of the summer and have only started to come to grips with this guitar. The first observation is, it's rock-solid and heavy for an archtop, with less body vibration and more sustain than I had anticipated. Very different from my ES-175 1959 VOS, or any other of the dozen or so archtops I have owned or currently have. What really bothers me is that the electric sound of the top two strings is very bright and stingy, like from a different guitar. Anyone familiar with this? I thought it was the replacement PUs (Gibson T-tops) but the phenomenon persists. I've lowered the treble end of the neck PU to no much avail. Haven't touched the pole pieces though. Is it the TOM bridge? Should there be nylon or some other non-metallic material under the E and B strings at the bridge? Would a wooden bridge be blasphemy?

[skykomishone]

My only comment is that it's your guitar, so blasphemy is permitted, and that the first thing that I did with a newly acquired L5P was to replace the ABR bridge with an ebony one.
I'm sure you'll get more advice.

[rpjazzguitar]

Bought - almost rescued - a pristine Gibson Tal Farlow a few moths ago. The original PUs are now back and the guitar was set up by the best tech in town. D'Addario .12 Chromes. I've been away much of the summer and have only started to come to grips with this guitar. The first observation is, it's rock-solid and heavy for an archtop, with less body vibration and more sustain than I had anticipated. Very different from my ES-175 1959 VOS, or any other of the dozen or so archtops I have owned or currently have. What really bothers me is that the electric sound of the top two strings is very bright and stingy, like from a different guitar. Anyone familiar with this? I thought it was the replacement PUs (Gibson T-tops) but the phenomenon persists. I've lowered the treble end of the neck PU to no much avail. Haven't touched the pole pieces though. Is it the TOM bridge? Should there be nylon or some other non-metallic material under the E and B strings at the bridge? Would a wooden bridge be blasphemy?

I'm pretty confident that this won't be helpful, so apologies in advance. But, I've had that issue with other guitars and my solution is to use a plain G. And, I don't use flatwounds. This strategy lowers the transition between the bright and less-bright strings to the D string. And, it mutes the difference a bit by not having a flatwound sound on the wound strings. It still bothers me occasionally, but I'm used to it.

Of course, when I hear archtop players, I don't usually notice this issue, so maybe there's something else going on. One other thought, when I play through my Little Jazz, the amp seems to subdue some of the zingy or fizzy high notes. Other amps, not so much.

[jazzkritter]

Ditch the TOM bridge. Get heavy Strings. And report back))). Tal played a brighter less bassy sound than most other guys from then, and Gibson did their best to give the guitar the sound he wanted.

I probably mentioned this before, so sorry for repeating. In my time with Tal (86-97) no metal bridge ever darkened the steps of his home. Tal always used wood bridges, either rosewood or ebony, he did not think there was a difference.
He always used a heavy set of D’Addario Chromes, with a 15 and 20 for E and B. Hard for me to believe now in my ‘advanced state’ I did that back then. Not any more, but I do use 14s.
He used a plain old Fender Heavy.
As you can see it was a long time ago.
jk

[DMgolf66]

Jack Wilkins has a Tal Farlow and he has a wooden bridge on it.

[jazzkritter]

Anything Jack does is OK with me!
i get a laugh that many here demand a TOM for intonation, and all these great players didn’t need that!

[QAman]

Anything Jack does is OK with me!
i get a laugh that many here demand a TOM for intonation, and all these great players didn’t need that!

So true. I currently own many high end Archtops and never had a problem with intonation on ebony bridges. Sort of like guys who change tuners - I’ve never had tuners that needed replacement. I Wrap/lock the string correctly, pre- stretch the string, and never have an issue with strings not staying in tune.


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[dlew919]

Maybe too lower the pickups on the treble side just a tad.


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[Gitterbug]

Hi all! A big thank for a flurry of early responses! I'm sure there will be more, and I also discovered the subject has been up before and on other fora. I'm not going to try an unwound G string and roundwounds, because I don't want to even out the transition by making the rest of the strings brighter. My arthritic hands have enough challenge with long-scale .12s - a huge difference vs. the ES. Meanwhile, I've discovered a quick fix: The sting becomes annoying only when the volume pots are fully open. At 9 and below, no problem. I'll be looking for a compensated wooden top part for the bridge, possibly contacting Matt Cushman or trying my hand on it first. But phew!, no rush.

[Herbie]

Hi all! A big thank for a flurry of early responses! I'm sure there will be more, and I also discovered the subject has been up before and on other fora. I'm not going to try an unwound G string and roundwounds, because I don't want to even out the transition by making the rest of the strings brighter. My arthritic hands have enough challenge with long-scale .12s - a huge difference vs. the ES. Meanwhile, I've discovered a quick fix: The sting becomes annoying only when the volume pots are fully open. At 9 and below, no problem. I'll be looking for a compensated wooden top part for the bridge, possibly contacting Matt Cushman or trying my hand on it first. But phew!, no rush.

Good to hear that You have found some way to compensate them. If You decide to go the wooden bridge route, don’t forget Your nearest aid, Millbrook music in Helsinki. They have cheapo compensated ebony bridges, at least they are worth trying.
MILLBROOK - Archtop kitaran tallat

I have liked most the ebony bridge that my tech Harri Kauppila (Kitarafaktori) here in Tampere made to me. Or to my guitar, he wanted to have my guitar for the making the bridge to have it right.

I believe there is fine ’bridgesmiths’ in Helsinki area too. Lottonen? Oesch?

[bluejaybill]

So true. I currently own many high end Archtops and never had a problem with intonation on ebony bridges. Sort of like guys who change tuners - I’ve never had tuners that needed replacement. I Wrap/lock the string correctly, pre- stretch the string, and never have an issue with strings not staying in tune.


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Yes, a proper ebony bridge can be very close, the challenge is when changing strings, it tends to move. One way to avoid this is to mark the spot with a piece of blue painters tape- assuming it won't harm the finish!

In terms of tuners, we used to change them on Gibsons all the time, not knowing that the problem was more often the nut.

[Gitterbug]

Good to hear that You have found some way to compensate them. If You decide to go the wooden bridge route, don’t forget Your nearest aid, Millbrook music in Helsinki. They have cheapo compensated ebony bridges, at least they are worth trying.
MILLBROOK - Archtop kitaran tallat

I have liked most the ebony bridge that my tech Harri Kauppila (Kitarafaktori) here in Tampere made to me. Or to my guitar, he wanted to have my guitar for the making the bridge to have it right.

I believe there is fine ’bridgesmiths’ in Helsinki area too. Lottonen? Oesch?

Thanks, Herbie! Yes, I know the local supply. Actually, my Ibanez AFJ91 has a bridge from Millbrook, because the original one was overcompensated. It was Kristian Oesch who changed the pups and gave the setup. Either it's very small circles here, or we're just so big...

[rpjazzguitar]

When you turn down the volume, you are probably solving the problem by rolling off some treble, depending on how the guitar is wired.

Or, somehow, something is no longer being overdriven in your signal chain.

I understand the desire not to brighten up the remaining strings. My approach is based on evening the sound out and then adjusting the entire thing with the tone pot. Obviously, not for everyone.

[Gitterbug]

When you turn down the volume, you are probably solving the problem by rolling off some treble, depending on how the guitar is wired.

Or, somehow, something is no longer being overdriven in your signal chain.

I understand the desire not to brighten up the remaining strings. My approach is based on evening the sound out and then adjusting the entire thing with the tone pot. Obviously, not for everyone.

It's got to be either the bridge or the wiring. None of this with the ES-175, which as I understand has similar pups.

[icr]

What really bothers me is that the electric sound of the top two strings is very bright and stingy, like from a different guitar...Haven't touched the pole pieces though....

You have hinted at the answer.

[Herbie]

Yes, a proper ebony bridge can be very close, the challenge is when changing strings, it tends to move. One way to avoid this is to mark the spot with a piece of blue painters tape- assuming it won't harm the finish!

In terms of tuners, we used to change them on Gibsons all the time, not knowing that the problem was more often the nut.

The problem of the moving bridge can be avoided by changing string one by one. This helps the neck tension too to be almost same all the time, no sudden loosenings and then tightenings again, which cause unstability in tuning.

[skykomishone]

Can't go wrong with a Matt Cushman ebony bridge! Haven't heard from Matt in a while, but he's in Montana.

[vinnyv1k]

Can't go wrong with a Matt Cushman ebony bridge! Haven't heard from Matt in a while, but he's in Montana.

Matt retired

[skykomishone]

Matt retired

What a great luthier and a gentleman! I miss his presence on the forum. Thanks for the update Vinny. I'm glad that he made the custom ebony bridge for the L5P. It's wonderful! The guitar too!