The most iconic guitars of Jazz?

[ms80]

I notice that the Gibson ES-175 and L-5 seem to be the iconic guitars that other archtop manufacturers base their designs on. Is it pretty much these 2 Gibsons that are the most definitive examples of the traditional Jazz guitar, or were there other models that have the same stature?

[Stringswinger]

I think the Super 400 is a close third.

[lawson-stone]

The Gibson ES150 with the Charlie Christian pickup was the "it" guitar for players in the bop era.

[floatingpickup]

[Cunamara]

"The" iconic guitars of jazz are, interestingly enough, pretty much all Gibsons. The L5, ES-150, ES-175 and the 1955 D'Angelico Johnny Smith (which leads directly to the Gibson JS and then to Benedetto and beyond) are to me the iconic guitars of jazz and the foundation upon which most everything else has proceeded from- often with a lot of refinements and improvements, but the fundamental foundation is one of those.

Some folks will also include the ES 335 but to me that is more of a blues and rock and maybe fusion guitar than a jazz guitar. Not to claim that a lot of great jazz wasn't played on one or something closely related (Grant Green, Emily Remler, etc.).

I should clarify here that I am thinking of electric jazz guitar and not including acoustic jazz guitar. The L5 and the Selmer Macafferri seem to me to be the iconic guitars for acoustic jazz. The Super 400 was already mentioned but to me that's just an enlarged L5.

That's a little more complex lineage, to my mind, then the same question would be about bluegrass. There the iconic guitar is the Martin D-18 and everything else is just a variation on the theme.

[Ray175]

+1 on the Selmer Macafferi. When the word Django is heard, the Macaferri instantly springs to mind....

[Hammertone]

"The" iconic guitars of jazz are, interestingly enough, pretty much all Gibsons. The L5, ES-150, ES-175 and the 1955 D'Angelico Johnny Smith (which leads directly to the Gibson JS and then to Benedetto and beyond) are to me the iconic guitars of jazz and the foundation upon which most everything else has proceeded from- often with a lot of refinements and improvements, but the fundamental foundation is one of those.
Some folks will also include the ES 335 but to me that is more of a blues and rock and maybe fusion guitar than a jazz guitar. Not to claim that a lot of great jazz wasn't played on one or something closely related (Grant Green, Emily Remler, etc.).
I should clarify here that I am thinking of electric jazz guitar and not including acoustic jazz guitar. The L5 and the Selmer Macafferri seem to me to be the iconic guitars for acoustic jazz. The Super 400 was already mentioned but to me that's just an enlarged L5.
That's a little more complex lineage, to my mind, then the same question would be about bluegrass. There the iconic guitar is the Martin D-18 and everything else is just a variation on the theme.

I think that's just revisionist history. Too much Gibson Kool-Aid going around, IMO.

[gitman]

I notice that the Gibson ES-175 and L-5 seem to be the iconic guitars that other archtop manufacturers base their designs on. Is it pretty much these 2 Gibsons that are the most definitive examples of the traditional Jazz guitar, or were there other models that have the same stature?

When you are looking at today's market with this question in mind I guess you're right : ever since the chinese manufacturers (under the tutelage of a handful of US luthiers) began to put out affordable, playable + decent sounding archtop guitars, obviously based on the above mentioned american icons, the sheer numbers alone made this clear. They looked + asked around and the decision where to go was a no-brainer....
a lam-top electric and a (more or less) solid-wood guitar, these two variants, from THE US company that has dominated the scene for so long.

[dlew919]

It’s funny how the Stratocaster (to an extent) and the jazz master were designed fir jazz but fail really. Yes some jazzers play the jazz master but not for long and it doesn’t stick.


Of all the fenders it would be the telecaster - jimmy Bryant, Julian lage Danny Gatton, mike stern, bill frisell, Tim lerch etc.

Gibson won the market there no question though.


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[floatingpickup]

Of all the fenders it would be the telecaster - jimmy Bryant, Julian lage Danny Gatton, mike stern, bill frisell, Tim lerch etc.

If you’re talking about Telecasters, don’t forget Ed Bickert. Having said that, he also played an ES-175 and and L5.
Keith

[dlew919]

If you’re talking about Telecasters, don’t forget Ed Bickert. Having said that, he also played an ES-175 and and L5.
Keith

I couldn’t think of his name. Ed! Thanks! Danny Gatton also played a Les Paul. Frisell plays all kinds of things and Tim lerch plays arch tops too. But they all sound fantastic on teles.


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[citizenk74]

I notice that the Gibson ES-175 and L-5 seem to be the iconic guitars that other archtop manufacturers base their designs on. Is it pretty much these 2 Gibsons that are the most definitive examples of the traditional Jazz guitar, or were there other models that have the same stature?

[Cunamara]

I think that's just revisionist history. Too much Gibson Kool-Aid going around, IMO.

P'raps. But when I think about the "iconic" jazz guitarists (Nick Lucas, Charlie Christian, Barney Kessel, Herb Ellis, Joe Pass, Tal Farlow, Jimmy Raney, Jim Hall, etc.; and yes I am aware that this is a very American-centric list) they mostly seem to have made their names on Gibson instruments. Are there exceptions? Sure: George Van Eps made his name playing Epiphone instruments. George Barnes played, if I remember correctly, Guilds.

I think "iconic" is not equivalent to "great" when it comes to the guitars in question. There are many other "great" guitars than Gibsons- Epiphone, D'Angelico, D'Aquisto, etc., which were often better instruments than Gibson. Yet somehow, Gibson is the icon for jazz.

[floatingpickup]

P'raps. But when I think about the "iconic" jazz guitarists (Nick Lucas, Charlie Christian, Barney Kessel, Herb Ellis, Joe Pass, Tal Farlow, Jimmy Raney, Jim Hall, etc.; and yes I am aware that this is a very American-centric list) they mostly seem to have made their names on Gibson instruments. Are there exceptions? Sure: George Van Eps made his name playing Epiphone instruments. George Barnes played, if I remember correctly, Guilds.

I think "iconic" is not equivalent to "great" when it comes to the guitars in question. There are many other "great" guitars than Gibsons- Epiphone, D'Angelico, D'Aquisto, etc., which were often better instruments than Gibson. Yet somehow, Gibson is the icon for jazz.

George Barnes played Gibson guitars in his early years, before his Guild.

[jazzkritter]

George Benson’s Ibanez GB10.
But you all knew I’d say that.
Thats been a steady icon with a very popular player for a long time.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I notice that the Gibson ES-175 and L-5 seem to be the iconic guitars that other archtop manufacturers base their designs on.

I think we have to consider the variants of the L-5 as separate icons, since each inspired a different school. The pre-‘35 non-cut 16” took things in one direction and the 17 inch L-5C went another way. Both are iconic, but they’re different animals. Throw in the L-5CES and there are 3 iconic guitars, each with its own sound, feel, look, and followers.

I’d also suggest Carl Kress’s ‘33 L-5 as a special icon. He designed it around his preferred fifths tuning (Bb to A, with one string down an octave - I don’t remember which one). This was probably the first modern jazz guitar designed for a radical alternate tuning, and it opened the door for all the far out stuff played today. I think Gibson made 3 or 4 of them, but I don’t know if they all went to Kress.

[pauln]

It’s funny how the Stratocaster (to an extent) and the jazz master were designed fir jazz but fail really.

Yes, some may feel temptation to use gain and effects, to play it hard and fast, to play it all bendy string wammyville, or just slip into playing other forms like blues, R&B, funk, fusion, rock, country, etc. But any failure to produce jazz from a Stratocaster is not from the guitar; it's an excellent guitar for playing jazz; I've been using this one exclusively for the last 33 years.

[dlew919]

Yes, some may feel temptation to use gain and effects, to play it hard and fast, to play it all bendy string wammyville, or just slip into playing other forms like blues, R&B, funk, fusion, rock, country, etc. But any failure to produce jazz from a Stratocaster is not from the guitar; it's an excellent guitar for playing jazz; I've been using this one exclusively for the last 33 years.

Oh no doubt they’re a great jazz guitar. . Mike stern played one with Miles on occasion. But that quack -neck bridge - always seemed to me to be great for jazz.

Yours is lovely btw.


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