Sadowsky laminate archtop prices: YIKES

[Woody Sound]

The Jim Hall model is now $6k + shipping. Wow.

Sadowsky Jim Hall 2021 Sienna Burst (#A1950) | Sadowsky | Reverb

[DRS]

Seems like a lot of money for a laminated guitar made in Japan even if Sadowsky's shop sets it up in NYC.

[jazzimprov]

A large Price Jump!

I bought mine in 2014 at $4700 then it went to $5100, now $6000-

Don't be fooled by it being a laminate, the sound is still unbelievably warm and sweet!
Nothing else sounds like it...

Have a listen with Lage Lund:

https://www.amazon.com/Marcus-Gilmor.../dp/B004STMML4

You can get a used one in the 4k range or less still....

[deacon Mark]

Oh my, much better buys out there in guitars for sure. If he made the guitar I could see it even laminated but as it is no go.

[Woody Sound]

A large Price Jump!

I bought mine in 2014 at $4700 then it went to $5100, now $6000-

Don't be fooled by it being a laminate, the sound is still unbelievably warm and sweet!
Nothing else sounds like it...

Yes I know, I use the Jimmy Bruno model. But $6k? I wonder if they're selling well. I also wonder if Jim Hall's estate gets a royalty for that model. The thinner SS-15 is the same price.

[Jim Soloway]

Sadowsky has been raising all their prices for a long time. Given a choice between building more and charging more, I would much rather they charge more. Forget about laminate vs solid woods. I think it's more important that a lot of really serious music has been made with their guitars and I've never heard a single bad word about them.

[Woody Sound]

Sadowsky has been raising all their prices for a long time. Given a choice between building more and charging more, I would much rather they charge more. Forget about laminate vs solid woods. I think it's more important that a lot of really serious music has been made with their guitars and I've never heard a single bad word about them.

Very true, the fingerboard/fretwork/action on my Bruno is as close to perfect as you can get. I just wish the frets were a little bigger. My emphasis on them being laminate is simply about less time (time is money) and skill involved than in doing a carved top. Not the quality or sound.

[helios]

Stephen Holst presses his own great sounding laminate plates IMHO! Send him the specs the Jim Hall and he'll build a laminate for $3500, plus he'll add features you may prefer (inlays, fret/neck dimensions, bindings etc). I basically had him copy a Borys B-120 for me:

[Jim Soloway]

Very true, the fingerboard/fretwork/action on my Bruno is as close to perfect as you can get. I just wish the frets were a little bigger. My emphasis on them being laminate is simply about less time (time is money) and skill involved than in doing a carved top. Not the quality or sound.

I understand but it's really an issue of supply and demand. When quantity demanded is higher than the quantity supplied at the given price, then the seller is leaving money on the table. Econ 101 is that you either raise the price or build more. Raising the price is a lot easier than building more.

BTW, there is a model that I think would be pretty close to perfect for me but the only way to get one would be to sell every guitar I own. I might consider it if I got to keep just one of my five.

[jmgalich]

Given the price of wood in general these days, it's not surprising. If you've tried to purchase a 2x4 lately, what was maybe $2.50 a year ago is now triple that or more. Here's a good article that nicely summarizes what's behind the increases:

thehustle.co

John Galich

[Woody Sound]

I understand but it's really an issue of supply and demand. When quantity demanded is higher than the quantity supplied at the given price, then the seller is leaving money on the table. Econ 101 is that you either raise the price or build more. Raising the price is a lot easier than building more.

Agree Jim, that's why I posited the question wondering whether he's selling many or not. At 5'-7" with a short body trunk and longer legs, I am still super happy with my 15" Sadowsky Bruno bought some years ago used/mint at well under $3k. Just wish the frets were a bit higher.

[Jim Soloway]

Agree Jim, that's why I posited the question wondering whether he's selling many or not. At 5'-7" with a short body trunk and longer legs, I am still super happy with my 15" Sadowsky Bruno bought some years ago used/mint at well under $3k. Just wish the frets were a bit higher.

How similar is that to the LS15?

[Jimmy blue note]

Ever since Jim Hall had Jimmy D'Aquisto optimize the design of the 175, it's gone on to become a real prestige and apex instrument for jazz. I've considered the Sadowsky's to be among the finest in that genre. I've been waiting for this price jump and it doesn't come as unexpected to me.
There are models out there that I've long considered the peers of these instruments and though a little more work to find on the used market, they're out there for a lot less money.
IMHO the Ibanez Joe Pass (JP20) with a qualifier of switching out the pickup to a Gibson-esque PAF is a front runner for those searching for these types of guitars. They are among the best built and really GOOD sounding jazz guitars, and very comfortable.
These so closely duplicated Jimmy's instrument that it caused a rift between Jimmy and Joe, whom the former considered the Ibanez Pass a betrayal. They're still out there to be found.

[sgosnell]

The wood being used in guitars currently built should have been purchased many years ago. If a builder is using newly bought wood in newly made guitars, I want nothing to do with them. Wood has to be aged and dried for at least a few years before it's suitable for use in instruments.

[lawson-stone]

The wood being used in guitars currently built should have been purchased many years ago. If a builder is using newly bought wood in newly made guitars, I want nothing to do with them. Wood has to be aged and dried for at least a few years before it's suitable for use in instruments.

True but they have to be able to replace the wood they use, and buying that replacement wood will mean contemporary pricing.

[Jimmy blue note]

Price of wood goes up, the price of my instruments goes up. My stocked and aged wood is worth much more than it did when I got it. Laminated wood, like we're talking in these guitars on this thread, is not really subject to the same considerations of drying and aging. They take a log, a green log, and peel off the layers like a giant roll of toilet paper. So the price is higher but the quality is pretty much consistent.
If the price of wood goes down though, large companies rarely adjust downwardly to accommodate the buyer.

[Dennis D]

Uh - oh - - - -this is starting to sound like the ( in - ) famous ' laminated maple vs laminated spruce ' discussion.......

....or are we now into aged laminated maple vs new laminated spruce.....and does it matter if only one of the laminates is aged, or must they all be ?....

......and don't forget the glue - must that be ' ten year old single ('hide' ) ' hyde' aged in an oak barrel ' ??...

........ah yes who has more fun than us ... : ) .......

[Jimmy blue note]

Uh - oh - - - -this is starting to sound like the ( in - ) famous ' laminated maple vs laminated spruce ' discussion.......

....or are we now into aged laminated maple vs new laminated spruce.....and does it matter if only one of the laminates is aged, or must they all be ?....

......and don't forget the glue - must that be ' ten year old single hide aged in an oak barrel ' ??...

........ah yes who has more fun than us ... : ) .......

I heard from a friend of a friend of a friend that Stradavarius had a secret formula for laminate glue that was SO good that he could take a stack of paper, glue it up and pass it off as his finest aged spruce. As rumour would have it, Amadi and Guanari sent spies and even espionage strumpets to infiltrate the Stradavarius family and steal the secrets of this glue.
As a matter of fact, the Del Jesu violin was made from a stack of scraps and leaves but bonded with the secret laminate glue. The grain lines were painted on by hand.

These secrets of lamination were passed on in a secret luthier guild lineage.
So secret was this formula that if anyone came anywhere on the property of the Stradavarius estate, elaborate protocols would be enacted to make this adhesive "mother lode" all but disappear from anywhere to be found.

This is the true origin of the original "Hide" glue.

[cmajor9]

‘Espionage Strumpets”... that could be a great name for a band.

[Dennis D]

I heard from a friend of a friend of a friend that Stradavarius had a secret formula for laminate glue that was SO good that he could take a stack of paper, glue it up and pass it off as his finest aged spruce. As rumour would have it, Amadi and Guanari sent spies and even espionage strumpets to infiltrate the Stradavarius family and steal the secrets of this glue.
As a matter of fact, the Del Jesu violin was made from a stack of scraps and leaves but bonded with the secret laminate glue. The grain lines were painted on by hand.

These secrets of lamination were passed on in a secret luthier guild lineage.
So secret was this formula that if anyone came anywhere on the property of the Stradavarius estate, elaborate protocols would be enacted to make this adhesive "mother lode" all but disappear from anywhere to be found.

This is the true origin of the original "Hide" glue.

.... damn ! - - - and all this time I thought it was the varnish he used !! : )

[sgcim]

Ever since Jim Hall had Jimmy D'Aquisto optimize the design of the 175, it's gone on to become a real prestige and apex instrument for jazz. I've considered the Sadowsky's to be among the finest in that genre. I've been waiting for this price jump and it doesn't come as unexpected to me.
There are models out there that I've long considered the peers of these instruments and though a little more work to find on the used market, they're out there for a lot less money.
IMHO the Ibanez Joe Pass (JP20) with a qualifier of switching out the pickup to a Gibson-esque PAF is a front runner for those searching for these types of guitars. They are among the best built and really GOOD sounding jazz guitars, and very comfortable.
These so closely duplicated Jimmy's instrument that it caused a rift between Jimmy and Joe, whom the former considered the Ibanez Pass a betrayal. They're still out there to be found.

Jimmy sued Ibanez over the JP20, and they stopped making them.
Roger Borys made the laminate tops for Jim Hall's D"Aquisto.

[bluejaybill]

Ever since Jim Hall had Jimmy D'Aquisto optimize the design of the 175, it's gone on to become a real prestige and apex instrument for jazz. I've considered the Sadowsky's to be among the finest in that genre. I've been waiting for this price jump and it doesn't come as unexpected to me.
There are models out there that I've long considered the peers of these instruments and though a little more work to find on the used market, they're out there for a lot less money.
IMHO the Ibanez Joe Pass (JP20) with a qualifier of switching out the pickup to a Gibson-esque PAF is a front runner for those searching for these types of guitars. They are among the best built and really GOOD sounding jazz guitars, and very comfortable.
These so closely duplicated Jimmy's instrument that it caused a rift between Jimmy and Joe, whom the former considered the Ibanez Pass a betrayal. They're still out there to be found.

And then, if I understand correctly, the legacy continued with Jimmy helping Roger Borys get started, and he makes fantastic instruments of this type. I have a B-160 and love it.

And Trenier was making a variant of this type as well, the Jazz Special.

Lots of interest in this style even among high end luthiers.

[Danny W.]

Given the price of wood in general these days, it's not surprising. If you've tried to purchase a 2x4 lately, what was maybe $2.50 a year ago is now triple that or more. Here's a good article that nicely summarizes what's behind the increases:

thehustle.co

John Galich

Lumber Prices Are Falling Fast, Turning Hoarders Into Sellers - WSJ

Danny W.

[omphalopsychos]

For that price, Sadowsky should at least go back to nitrocellulose lacquer. A plywood guitar could easily be worth its value at $6k (Trenier and Borys set the precedent), but the cheap feeling poly has been a huge turn off on every Sadowsky I've played.

[Flat]

My avatar is smiling.