Ergonomics and tone/feel

[Groyniad]

just wanted to raise this old issue again

I have an eagle classic and a sweet 16

one of the great guitar-surprises I have had is how big and fat this sweet 16 sounds now I've put a KA 12 pole piece jobby on it

but sustained testing reveals that the EC is indeed a bigger fatter sounding guitar.

The biggest difference is that the tone is more focused - denser - on the EC - in the sense that it doesn't set off so many sympathetic vibrations in the strings - it has a more controlled sound.

I had to give up an L5CES largely because there was no way I could live with the size/weight ratio (the EC is heavier but quite a bit smaller)

I once had a wonderful Campellone 17'' thin line - it was a joy to sit with and wrap one's arm around - but I could not reconcile myself to the significant loss of thickness in the tone.

Apart from this Sweet 16 the smallest guitars I've had that I really liked were an Electric Archie (Steve Andersen) and a GB10 (Ibanez).

anyway - I got this sweet 16 because I although I loved the EC like I have never loved a guitar before (see other posts) it began by cutting off the blood supply to my right leg (it took me three weeks to work out what was going on - horrid) and, even now that I've learned to sit with it using a strap, it pulls down very heavily on my neck/shoulder area and makes long practice sessions very uncomfortable.

I got the EC precisely because Rich Severson's videos convinced me - rightly - that the big guitars have a bigger fatter sound. I love that sound. But I hate feeling like I need a serious yoga workout after 1 hour of practice....

I need much more than 1 hour of practice - so I have to use a smaller guitar

right?

[Alter]

If facing such a problem, i would try all possible playing positions. Playing in a classical position, with the guitar in front of me or on the side, on a couch, using a foot stool, a comfort big padded strap, etc. Sometimes it takes days or weeks for your body to find its way around a new guitar. Even using a folded towel (or some support or elevation gadget) where you touch the guitar can make all the difference.

But to be uncomfortable with certain shapes and sizes is definitely a thing, and I get it too with bigger guitars. I can still play them, but an auditorium is more comfortable to me than a dreadnaught, a 16" more so than a 17".

However, a sound that's focused and controlled as you describe, has a lot to do with the construction of the guitar as well, the bracing (parallel or x braced), and choice of woods (solid, laminate..). To my ears bigger guitars have more bass, and just more.. sound. But they can still sound very focused and project in a clear and defined way, if made with such a goal in mind.

[gitman]

Having played hundreds and hundreds of gigs (long ones, too) with my heavy banjo and the big Super-400CES in mostly standing position the muscles in my back and shoulders are well conditioned even though I was totally beat after so many of these gigs .... sitting in my room and practicing for a whole morning / afternoon/evening is not an issue re my physical comfort. I could suggest that you start a work-out routine at your local gym to get these muscles back in shape but without knowing anything about your age, your build etc. that is not so helpful I guess. I always play with a strap and I am very particular what size strap and what kind of material it is made of : for the banjo (10 pounds) I use a 2.5" Neoprene strap from Sadowsky which spreads the weight very evenly across my shoulder and back, it weighs next to nothing and is not too slippery. The Super hangs on a 3" Cotton strap , also by Sadowsky - more friction still and extremely light weight. So look for a wide strap, preferably from a light material (leather is heavy) and in addition to the strap you could check out these special cushions that many classical guitarists use all the time : it sits on the upper leg and jacks up +supports the guitar into a comfortable playing position. Very useful for people who can't use the traditional footstool.

[Groyniad]

cool responses

I use the very same strap! (the sadowsky neoprene) - I found a squidgier version no eBay that's even better (Neotech)

I'm 53 - but I'm fit and not overweight and about medium size - I do regular physical exercise.

I have just changed ways of holding the guitar - from the classic (not 'classical') guitar position (no strap - across the right leg - feet on floor) to the funny guitar-cushion wedge thing (especially made to lift the guitar higher and spread the impact on the right leg) - to the wide neoprene strap and a different playing position.

the new playing position - which is Wes-like (Rich Severson sets out a version of it clearly) - is bloody great. it changes everything really. Makes playing looking straight ahead with a straight back possible - makes a wide range of positions possible (think the guy who plays a Comins Violinburst thing... Steve...something - and John Stowell etc.- but you don't have to take it anywhere near as far as they do. there's a whole range of good positions).

My latest hope is that alternating between the funny guitar-cushion-thing and the strap is going to work well enough.

there's no doubt the full size instrument has things to offer musically that the smaller one doesn't - and you can certainly get your arm round it (with the strap) in the relevant sort of way.

I played a super 400 for at least four years - but I was gigging a lot then and practicing much less. I didn't use a strap.

it may well be that after 'a certain age' - even if you're active etc. - you have to get things just right otherwise you're in trouble.

I'm convinced that this eagle classic could not achieve what it does if it was significantly lighter. the weight has to be crucial to how it sounds and feels. but - of course - there are going to be lots of L5CES/Wesmo guitars that are significantly lighter, so easier to live with.

[Jabberwocky]

Steve Herberman.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I’m past 70 and have played at least 100 gigs a year for the last 55+ years with no physical signs of trouble. As already pointed out, staying in shape is a huge help. I’ve been exercising every day for years and still fit in the high quality, plain black tuxes I bought in the late ‘60s for gigs (from the classifieds in the AFM paper!)I played a 345 and a 175 from ‘61 to ‘69, when I got an L5 - and I’ve used a 16 or 17” full depth archtop since then for jazz gigs. For me, the keys to comfort are to sit, use a footrest (even a case or small amp), hold the guitar on my left leg, and keep my left thumb behind the neck rather than constantly rotating my wrist and arm for intermittent fretting with it. I’ve always preferred a stool with a rung or footrest 8-12” off the ground when allowed to use one - when the rest of the band is in chairs, leaders don’t like it if you stick up like a weed

I’ve never been able to play without glancing at the fingerboard from time to time, so I learned to hold the guitar with just enough angulation of the top into my body so I can see without shifting my neck or body forward while playing.

As for size, I do prefer the richer sound of most larger boxes. But my Martin 00-16 NY and my early ‘50s L-50 made two of the richest and most beautiful sounds I’ve ever heard from a guitar.