Don't complain that the guitar is too big for you

[feet]

i used play theorbo standing at a gig with drums and bass on a small stage, no problem. good thing i only play stadiums these days, though.

[Dennis D]

!!

[StringNavigator]

These days, pushing 64 years of age, I am experiencing fingertip pain no matter what size guitar I play. Light strings are now my friend.

Try...
chondroitin

[sgosnell]

The only thing chondroitin does for me is make my wallet lighter. It's very efficient at that, but does nothing else that I can see or feel.

[jazzkritter]

The NIH (National Institute of Health in the US) has done several studies on chondroitin with glucosamine for osteoarthritis in knee pain. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29771395/
Results over several studies are inconclusive as to whether it’s a placebo effect or actually working.
So, yes, that may be the sound of your wallet getting skinny)))
Personally I prefer the placebo effect of wine. Or in extreme cases vodka. Far more effective pain relief and it still enhances my playing.
At least I think so.

[Littlemark]

Hi, B,
No wonder you're hanging around a guitar site . . . you have the gene for obsessive compulsive collecting! Funny. However, I played in horn bands most of my musical life. I never knew players with multiple instruments unless it was trumpet/flugelhorn or in my case-- Tenor/Alto/Flute. And, I only blew one mouthpiece--Meyer #5 with Rico Royal 3 1/2-4 reeds. I firmly believe obsessive changing of instruments, mouthpieces/reeds is a personality type. Not necessarily good or bad . . . just a personal thing. The biggest challenge was discovering your voice as it related to the nature of the instrument. Did you ever land on a favorite mouthpiece? Play live . . . Marinero

P.S. I played with a bone player for a couple of years that had an old 40's Conn Big Bell that was one of the sweetest sounds I've ever heard. Of course, he was a good player. M

What did you do with the head joint while you used the Meyer on your flute?

[Littlemark]

"Whatever works for a person just dont let the jazz sheriff boss you around!" Steve Burchfield




Five Stars, S! Play live . . . Marinero

Careful, that sounds a bit woke. You shouldn't be encouraging people too do things that work if didn't conform to their body type.

[Littlemark]

Hugely depends on whether you play seated vs. standing. Personally almost all my playing is standing (you know, what with sitting being the new smoking and all, although I've been mostly standing for guitar since about 2012). Also interesting that she does not "cross a leg" to put the guitar in the right (approx) position for her. That's actually because the guitar is so big. When I play "seated" I still use the strap and so the guitar is basically in the same position as I'd have it in while standing, but if I was playing without a strap and with the guitar just resting on my leg I'd go for a larger instrument too.

I suspect she doesn't cross her legs because she uses a volume pedal very often.

[guavajelly]

Well, Jazzers are strange canaries, indeed! That's a given. In the Classical world, a guitar must fit a person's body type. Young students usually start with a 1/2 or 3/4 guitar and work up to a full size instrument when appropriate.

Interestingly an Ibanez GB10 is about the same size as a 1/1 classical guitar, just a little less deep.
Frankly I think all the whining about size and weight is a production of the internet. I can't remember having discussions with other musicians about this parameters before. When a fellow musician entered the stage or rehearsal space with a new guitar all we discussed was sound, looks – and price.
And we never made the guitar responsible for pain – if we developed symptoms because we practiced too much it was always a question of posture.

[guavajelly]

St Vincent designed her signature guitar to fit.

Fun fact: Did you know Anni Clark (a.k.a. St. Vincent) is Tuck Andress' niece?

[JFranck]

Even if your guitar is too big for you, you can achieve a nice playing : see young Boulou at 1.30

[Marinero]

What did you do with the head joint while used the Meyer on your flute?

Hi, L,
That would have been a real trick! Funny! Actually I had a Gemeinhardt with a silver head joint. I don't think the Meyer would have worked! Play live . . . Marinero

[EllenGtrGrl]

This guitar is too small:

I'm finally getting around to reading through the entire thread - you have to understand the time period with this guitar was made. In the 1800s, it was not at all uncommon for guitars to be this small. Most Martin guitars in the 1800s were almost as small as the one in the video:

1800s Martin Style 1 Guitar



At the time, smaller guitars like these were fine, since they were mainly solo instruments, played at home, or in very intimate venues, that didn't need a ton of volume. Guitars didn't start to get larger (or for that matter start using steel strings), until players realized that they needed more volume for playing in larger venues, and/or to keep up with the volume increase that occurs when you're playing in an ensemble. Hence the reason why Martin created its 0, 00, 000, etc. models, and Antonio Torres (on the Classical guitar side of things) started building guitars with larger bodies.

BTW, Brandon Acker has a soft spot for playing older and more obscure stringed instruments. Here's a video of him going to town playing an early Torres classical guitar from 1888, that belongs to a private collector, back in December 2019.

Here, let me help you.

I respect Annie Clark as a player (she has chops to burn), but I do wish she would quit trying to be some permutation of a "Lady Gaga on guitar."

Mary can play whatever she wants to and I will play whatever I want to. I'm 60. I work out. I can schlepp around a Fender Twin Reverb and it doesn't bother me. But with guitars, for me, ergonomics is key. I can play a 17" jazz box but I play it in the classical style. My go to now is a small bodied, 12 fret acoustic with a cutaway. Very comfy.

+1 for me with regards to ergonomics. I was taught early on by my uncle (Guitar Generation #2 in my family), who took classical guitar lessons (grandpa [Guitar Generation #1, who was a luthier, and played guitar in jazz bands] insisted that my uncle take classical guitar lessons, when he was young), to play in the classical style. Hence, fingers arched, and thumb behind the neck has been the way I've played for over 40 years. As a result, thin necks just don't do it for me - they feel uncomfortable (like my fretting hand is trying to act like a C-clamp), and my left/fretting hand gets stiff and sore. I don't need a baseball bat neck, but at least a Medium C to keep my left hand happy. Also V-necks need not apply. While they may be very comfortable for a player who hangs their thumb over the neck, they put my thumb in an awkward position (since it's behind the neck).

[Marinero]

"I respect Annie Clark as a player (she has chops to burn), but I do wish she would quit trying to be some permutation of a "Lady Gaga on guitar." EllenGtrGrl


So, E,
Are you referring to the above video as an example of Annie's "chops?" Also, how do you describe this genre of music?
Play live . . . Marinero

[Marty Grass]

"I respect Annie Clark as a player (she has chops to burn), but I do wish she would quit trying to be some permutation of a "Lady Gaga on guitar." EllenGtrGrl

I regret having to state this, but if Annie Clark didn't do what she does she'd be working at Walmart.

[DRS]

I regret having to state this, but if Annie Clark didn't do what she does she'd be working at Walmart.

Wouldn't we all?

[Bach5G]

Re: Ms Clark - No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public.

[christianm77]

i used play theorbo standing at a gig with drums and bass on a small stage, no problem. good thing i only play stadiums these days, though.

Sell out.

[EllenGtrGrl]

"I respect Annie Clark as a player (she has chops to burn), but I do wish she would quit trying to be some permutation of a "Lady Gaga on guitar." EllenGtrGrl


So, E,
Are you referring to the above video as an example of Annie's "chops?" Also, how do you describe this genre of music?
Play live . . . Marinero

I'd describe Ms. Clark's stye as a very avant garde version of art rock, which is not really not my thing. Jazz yes, prog rock yes, prog metal (like Tool) yes, art rock - no. The closest I get to liking avant garde rock is Captain Beefheart's "Ice Cream for Crow" album. But, I had read years ago, in Guitar Player Magazine, that she had learned some guitar from Tuck Andress, and had attended Berklee - neither of which make her look like she's a slouch musically. Some her earlier stuff from the 00s seems to be OK (keeping in mind that I'm not much of an art rock person), but like Lady Gaga (who is a classically trained pianist, who has also competed in piano competitions), it seems that it isn't enough to just make a good living at making music, fame has become the driving force - usually via notoriety earned by looking, and acting in ways that raise people's eyebrows (though I will admit, at age 57, I should be so lucky as have a figure like Annie Clark has - I would look beyond awful in her stage clothes, with my figure [whereas Annie just oftentimes looks weird wearing them]).

Oops! I forgot to mention - no, I'm not impressed by the playing in the video. Maybe I'm a stick in the mud, but it's kind of boring to me (as is most art rock).

[jazzkritter]

Ms Clark can do no wrong in my book, she is an outspoken critic of the whole cancel culture thing. Go Girl!
As far as a female star needing to show skin to compete, not exactly a new idea born of Lady Gaga. Been going on a while. Anyway, St Vincent hasn’t gone full naked like Lizzo.

You all may be unimpressed with ms Clark, but apparently mr McCartney has a different opinion:
https://www.nme.com/news/music/st-vi...t-life-2913169

I’ll get back to you when mr McCartney asks me to play lol

[EllenGtrGrl]

Ms Clark can do no wrong in my book, she is an outspoken critic of the whole cancel culture thing. Go Girl!
As far as a female star needing to show skin to compete, not exactly a new idea born of Lady Gaga. Been going on a while. Anyway, St Vincent hasn’t gone full naked like Lizzo.

You all may be unimpressed with ms Clark, but apparently mr McCartney has a different opinion:
St. Vincent on working with Paul McCartney: "It was the best moment of my life"

I’ll get back to you when mr McCartney asks me to play lol

Cancel culture sucks and bravo for Annie speaking out. I just wish she didn't also do the Lady Gaga, and Wes Borland (of Limp Bizkit) thing image-wise. That's just my opinion for however little it counts.

[Bach5G]

Does the music not speak for itself?

[StringNavigator]

DON'T COMPLAIN THAT THE GUITAR IS TOO BIG FOR YOU.

Another interesting topic at JG...

Notice how Carol Kaye holds the guitar with a very ergonomical approach. The positioning of the guitar's upper bout and waist on her right leg veers the lower bout well clear of her right side and arm. Most people don't think much about this and simply grab the instrument, start playing, develop Carpel Tunnel, inflame their shoulder joint, and finally trade it in.



On Double Bass one quickly finds out that they need to think about how to address the bass physically and approach the technique of stopping and plucking the strings. Technical training begins with the holding and balancing of any instrument of interest. With the Epiphone Joe Pass (a sonic wonder for the price), dimensions are not as concerning as an upright bass or a 19" Stromberg guitar.

Big Band guitarists, back when music was actually a real thing, often laid their guitar almost onto its back in their lap and strummed it in a horizontal plane. For single note playing, they would re-position the instrument more vertically. Shoving the guitar up the armpit seems to be more of a photo pose than a viable playing technique. Not to mention the deadening effect of laying one's arm on the top of a guitar (or even smothering the back of a guitar). Doesn't seem to affect Tele's, though.

Tyros need to pay special attention when selecting their first guitar and seek professional advice before entering a music store. Few stores will dote on you in 2020 and their sales staff are often devotees to the school of the low slung guitar strap; more likely to sell you a case of knee-burn ointment before advising you on proper strappage. We need more shoe salespeople in our favourite music shoppes.

It's like buying a suit. "Buy it off the rack; Sure to take it back!" One must consider the neck and body dimensions separately, according to arm length and finger length, sitting or standing, comping in F in first position or noodling about the dusty end. Crucial instrument details, such as: width, depth, weight, shape, proportion, ergonomics, model, design-purpose, strap placement must all be explored before commitment. Not to mention materials, finish, trim, hardware, string type and string height... Make it a project. Purchasing your first guitar is an adventure that will live forever in your nostalgic moments.

Anyone contemplating a guitar purchase, or a job in a music store, should visit this web site for a good start:
Collings | Acoustic Guitars (collingsguitars.com)

Especially these designations, such as: CJ, 0, 00, 000, Parlor, DS, Dreadnought, Baby, Jumbo, Tenor...
Trust or self-educate? Either way, you'll pay the price!

[StringNavigator]

Mary Osborne, another popular jazz guitarist, displaying proper technique.

KNOW HOW TO HOLD 'EM... OR LEAVE 'EM ALONE!

[skykomishone]

John Stowell holds his guitars in what I would consider a unique way. I've never asked him why, but I expect it's for ergonomic reasons.