What’s a nice drive for fusion?

**neatomic** · 03-02-2021, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by RobbieAG

I'm not really a pedal guy, but recently listened to a Chick Corea recording with Bill Connors on guitar (Hymn to the Seventh Galaxy), and was reminded of how great a sound he got on that recording.

connors achieved that great tone mostly thru sheer volume...he used a 200 watt marshall head!

said bill-

"I had that big Marshall with at least one 4X12 bottom. I had a Maestro Phase Shifter, a Maestro full-range booster, and a volume pedal. That was it."

all primitive pedals!

here's the maestro full range boost

and a newer diy clone

cheers

**Gitfiddler** · 03-02-2021, 07:41 PM

This is what my first drive unit looked like.
It just plugged right into the amp's input. Then I plugged my guitar into the top of this thing and switched it on.
Didn't help my Vibro Champ (or my playing) sound much better, however.

**neatomic** · 03-02-2021, 08:12 PM

ah! fuzz plug ins...like the og jordan bosstone...many a 60's garage band used one...

ridiculously simple design yet somehow otherworldly! esp in them days

cheers

**citizenk74** · 03-02-2021, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by neatomic

ah! fuzz plug ins...like the og jordan bosstone...many a 60's garage band used one...

ridiculously simple design yet somehow otherworldly! esp in them days

cheers

My first musical acquisition! Even before a guitar! Before I could play guitar! A harbinger of things to come.
Years later I see one of the Doobie Brothers sporting one on TV.

**WesParker** · 03-03-2021, 03:53 AM

Is it a real OD of Allan?

**citizenk74** · 03-03-2021, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by WesParker

Is it a real OD of Allan?

**guavajelly** · 03-04-2021, 03:56 AM

Honestly I didn't follow all the drive pedals that were released in the last 20 years. That's because I always come back to my RAT from the 90s. I have tried some of the newer "boutique" drives (like Zendrive, Box of Rock, Simble – after that I gave up) that sound good at home but don't sit as well in the mix as the RAT – especially when playing with the neck pickup I found most of them had too much bass. The RAT cuts some bass. Between the distortion and filter control it handles everything from mild overdrive to brutal distortion. It can even do a little fuzz. And it bites through the mix like a rat.

**christianm77** · 03-04-2021, 04:41 AM

Originally Posted by ruger9

Which amp (in a box)? I mean, I think it can make my PRRI sound like a Marshall on the bridge pickup, but it's marketed as a "Dumble" style pedal. I've never played a Dumble. But I look at it, and use it as, a "thick" drive (as opposed to a "transparent drive", which means no mid-hump). It's almost like adding a drive channel to a clean amp.

Glad you're liking it so far!

actually since experimenting with it yesterday I think it probably sounds best into some sort of amp or amp sim. It sounds good without, but I think it would sound better with.

**ruger9** · 03-04-2021, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

actually since experimenting with it yesterday I think it probably sounds best into some sort of amp or amp sim. It sounds good without, but I think it would sound better with.

WAIT, you aren't plugging it into an amp? What are you plugging into? a DI or computer? It's a pedal meant to be plugged into an amp, it's not an actual amp simulator pedal the like the Tech21 Character Series pedals (Liverpool, Blonde, etc.)- they have a speaker emulation circuit, because they are meant to be plugged into a DI of some kind.... PA, A/D interface, computer...

**christianm77** · 03-04-2021, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by ruger9

WAIT, you aren't plugging it into an amp? What are you plugging into? a DI or computer? It's a pedal meant to be plugged into an amp, it's not an actual amp simulator pedal the like the Tech21 Character Series pedals (Liverpool, Blonde, etc.)- they have a speaker emulation circuit, because they are meant to be plugged into a DI of some kind.... PA, A/D interface, computer...

Well now I can tell you haven’t been reading my posts haha

Google ‘Impulse Response’ if you aren’t familiar with IR’s.

The speaker emulation circuit in the Tech 21 isnt very good by today’s standards (and the drive on it is frankly crap) so I’ve swapped over to using Two Notes Torpedo Wall of Sound IR’s which are pretty great actually. I can specify cab type and the kind of room acoustic and mic positions etc, all of which gives more options (and is more neighbour friendly) than simply plopping a mic in front of my amp.

That said I still feel the Dude is a bit mushy straight in with an IR. it sounds good, but I think it could sound better with some sort of preamp emulation for which I have quite a few options, both software and hardware (I’d prefer hardware for latency, which is why I’m using pedals rather than plugins).

It’s not a big deal because this is more of a thing I was curious about than a central thing I wanted.

The pedal sounds great through my Princeton (and through the amp I actually use day to day too) of course, but that’s not going to be my primary application of it for the foreseeable.

**christianm77** · 03-04-2021, 11:22 AM

I think a few people on the forum could do to check out those Wall of Sound IR’s; they probably sound very complicated but they are super easy to use and sound great .

**tomems** · 03-04-2021, 11:24 AM

JHS morning glory v4 is a great low to medium gain OD. Might be versatile for low to medium gain fusion? It sounds great to me...

**christianm77** · 03-04-2021, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by tomems

JHS morning glory v4 is a great low to medium gain OD. Might be versatile for low to medium gain fusion? It sounds great to me...

Isn’t that what Julian Lage uses?

**tomems** · 03-04-2021, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Isn’t that what Julian Lage uses?

yes! I saw that and then I went to YouTube… And saw the demo from pro guitar shop. That is just a great sound. I have been very happy. It can go from nearly invisible to pretty crunchy. That to me seems like it would cover all the ground that would be needed for fusion.

**ruger9** · 03-04-2021, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Well now I can tell you haven’t been reading my posts haha

Well, I stopped when you were pleased with my comment that it sounds great through a Princeton, so I assumed....

Originally Posted by christianm77

The pedal sounds great through my Princeton (and through the amp I actually use day to day too) of course, .

See?

And yeah I agree about those Tech 21 character pedals- I'm not a fan.

**christianm77** · 03-04-2021, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by ruger9

Well, I stopped when you were pleased with my comment that it sounds great through a Princeton, so I assumed....

See?

And yeah I agree about those Tech 21 character pedals- I'm not a fan.

They do clean perfectly well and have served me in a pinch like when I’m touring and there’s no house amp at the venue (I also like them for warming up my AER etc) but for recording theres really better options around.

The ‘Plexi’ on my FlyRig is just horrendous. I wonder if the drive is any better on the other versions?

**ruger9** · 03-04-2021, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

They do clean perfectly well and have served me in a pinch like when I’m touring and there’s no house amp at the venue (I also like them for warming up my AER etc) but for recording theres really better options around.

The ‘Plexi’ on my FlyRig is just horrendous. I wonder if the drive is any better on the other versions?

I don't think so. I've had the "Blonde", the RK OMG (it's supposed to be a hot-rodded version of the Plexi), and another one I can't remember at the moment. I have also tried their delay & boost, and the Leslie/rotary one. I haven't found a Tech21 pedal I've liked yet.

**wzpgsr** · 03-04-2021, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

They do clean perfectly well and have served me in a pinch like when I’m touring and there’s no house amp at the venue (I also like them for warming up my AER etc) but for recording theres really better options around.

The ‘Plexi’ on my FlyRig is just horrendous. I wonder if the drive is any better on the other versions?

I have been messing around with: Joyo American Sound (basically a Tech 21 Blonde clone, but with a slightly different EQ) —> Quilter Microblock 45 —> pine cab loaded with an Eminence GA-10 SC-64 (or whatever that thing is called) and accounting for differences in speaker and cabinet construction, I can dial in a gently pushed low-gain late 1950s tweed tone that could absolutely replace my real tweed-era Fender clone if I wanted to part with it. If I had to nitpick about this rig, it has a bit crisper of an attack than the 5Y3/6V6 squishiness of the real deal, but it’s awfully damn close. I realize this has nothing to do with this thread topic so I’ll shutup now.

**RobbieAG** · 03-04-2021, 06:25 PM

I had a little fun with this the other night. With a strat I had to run it through a boost (DOD Bifet Boost) and 2 overdrives (Boss SD1 and DOD Overdrive 250) to get anywhere close. This was through a Roland Cube 60 and headphones so that was a limitation. I expect the results with one of my humbucker guitars through my Mesa Boogie would be completely different. It really is guitar and amp dependent to get it dialed in. Not so easy to do.

**christianm77** · 03-04-2021, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by wzpgsr

I have been messing around with: Joyo American Sound (basically a Tech 21 Blonde clone, but with a slightly different EQ) —> Quilter Microblock 45 —> pine cab loaded with an Eminence GA-10 SC-64 (or whatever that thing is called) and accounting for differences in speaker and cabinet construction, I can dial in a gently pushed low-gain late 1950s tweed tone that could absolutely replace my real tweed-era Fender clone if I wanted to part with it. If I had to nitpick about this rig, it has a bit crisper of an attack than the 5Y3/6V6 squishiness of the real deal, but it’s awfully damn close. I realize this has nothing to do with this thread topic so I’ll shutup now.

i know a mastering engineer who says he infinitely prefers the Joyo to SansAmp (less compression)

Unfortunately I could pick up Magic FM on both Joyo units I have owned and they died fairly quickly on gigs.

**bluejaybill** · 03-04-2021, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by tomems

yes! I saw that and then I went to YouTube… And saw the demo from pro guitar shop. That is just a great sound. I have been very happy. It can go from nearly invisible to pretty crunchy. That to me seems like it would cover all the ground that would be needed for fusion.

A Morning Glory is a Bluesbreaker pedal variant. Those are generally low to mid gain, maybe not enough saturation for fusion?

But the good news is that they stack really well, you can run a boost into it and that would probably get you there.

That's the principle behind the King of Tone, which is a great but hard to get pedal. There are knockoffs of it, or you can use a MG or Prince of Tone with a boost as stated. Then you would have the versatility of two lower gain drives as well.

**tomems** · 03-06-2021, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by bluejaybill

A Morning Glory is a Bluesbreaker pedal variant. Those are generally low to mid gain, maybe not enough saturation for fusion?

But the good news is that they stack really well, you can run a boost into it and that would probably get you there.

That's the principle behind the King of Tone, which is a great but hard to get pedal. There are knockoffs of it, or you can use a MG or Prince of Tone with a boost as stated. Then you would have the versatility of two lower gain drives as well.

Funny you mention that. I had a KoT--I liked it, but I got rid of it in favor of JHS MG v4 and a TC Spark mini...

**bluejaybill** · 03-07-2021, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by tomems

Funny you mention that. I had a KoT--I liked it, but I got rid of it in favor of JHS MG v4 and a TC Spark mini...

It's a great combination with a lot of versatility. It does take a bit of dedication to figure out how two drives work together. On the KoT, I usually run the clean boost into the other side set to overdrive. I like that sound a lot better than setting one side for distortion, which would provide a more "fusiony" tone. This is the method used by a lot of pros, including Steve Ray Vaughn. You can also check out Trey Anastasio, who gets a pretty fusiony sound from two tube screamers set low together, plus the versatility of all manners of OD in between clean and mean.

**raal** · 03-07-2021, 03:27 PM

I found the vintage rat reissue to be a good compromise between the gated fusion sound and dynamic OD. This is through a lexicon sig 284 pre direct to DAW but would think similar results may be achieved with say a tweed. Guitar solo at 3:14.