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You know, I see alot of people on this JAZZ forum talk about hum. Since (I assume) most of us are playing mostly-clean tones when playing jazz, and likely not at loud volumes, where are you guys having such a problem with hum??? I'm a tele guy, and even when using gain (rock) the hum doesn't bother me... when I play the tele clean at home (which is ALOT), there is no hum. Hum really only starts getting annoying when you pile on either gain or volume... Do you guys have terrible/dirty power or something?
Originally Posted by JaxJaxon
I get the idea of "bucking hum" is a great one- who wants noise? But personally, my favorite jazz tones usually come from single coil pickups: P90s or CCs. Altho I'll admit Johnny Smith's tone is also a fave, and he used a mini-HB alot, right?). For me, playing this jazzy style (I'll never be a true jazz player; Kenny Burrell-inspired is likely the best I will ever do, coming from a blues/rock background)... I never have a problem with hum....?
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01-27-2021 07:17 PM
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For me, the answer has been P90s. With lower wind, unpotted humbuckers (such as Seth Lovers) a close second. Not that I'm entirely sure what "woody" means ... But going with the flow, have to say I prefer wooden bridges by far to tunomatics. With the exception there being certain aftermarket bar type bridges (Compton, TruArc), but I've so far heard these only on Gretsches.
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Yes, regarding a wood bridge... the Godin in the video above has a Graphtec bridge... is that supposed to be like bone? Like an acoustic bridge or nut? I know about Graphtec nuts on solidbody electrics, but didn't realize until now the Kingpin has a Graphtec bridge. Originally Posted by mad dog
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Godin 5th Avenue is very acoustic by design - a contemporary take on the ES-125, with an extremely light construction and very thin laminate top. This, and the use of cherry wood, sets it apart from the rest. Time will tell how aging affects the tone. The acoustic version strung with bronze strings has a very strong but not overly sophisticated voice. The plasticky, poorly fitting bridge was probably its most criticized feature around introduction - don't know if it's the same in later runs.
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There are basically two kinds of "hum": various kinds of noise, distortion, hisses, etc., from devices in the signal path that get amplified by effect or amp gain, and hum (at the AC line frequency or a multiple of that) from electro-magnetic devices that are in the environment (such as dimmers, motors, and transformers) that is detected by pickups. Originally Posted by ruger9
Humbuckers are designed to neutralize this second kind. If you use single coil pickups in environments poor wiring and/or stuff like light dimmers, HVAC equipment, appliances with big motors, electronics with poorly shielded power supplies etc., the buzz can be very loud and annoying.
If you haven't experienced this, lucky you. There are places I play where single coils are essentially unusable. IME, P90s are the worst. I nearly always use an Electro Harmonix Hum Debugger (a pedal that can neutralize this kind of hum) with my P90 guitar or my Strat.
John
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Well, it is like making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Not that there's anything wrong with trying. Have you considered a mini-condenser microphone like a dpa 4099G or the Thomann cheapie replica t.bone Ovid? Or the Bartlett Audio Mic A or Mic B?
Choose a set of phosphor bronze for the ES-175. Use one of the above microphones, feed it through an acoustic guitar amp with a tweeter.
You could well try a lightly potted low wind humbucker into an acoustic guitar amp, too. That comes close but would sound more stringy than woody.
I have been waiting to try this: https://opentosourcesensors.com/prod...ression-pickup . I suspect it will come close to a condenser with a good EQ.
I just picked up a pre-Gibson Mesa Rosette One:Ten on Tuesday. Try a Rosette.
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Oh, I know what noise is, and I've experienced it. But I only have those problems at gigs or rehearsals. Never at home. IDK how many of us here gig jazz tunes regularly, but I'm guessing not many? (I'm talking before Covid of course). I'm guessing 95% of us sit at home and play 95% of the time? I would think that would mean "hum"/noise would not be an issue? Playing clean tones at low volumes? Originally Posted by John A.
And as for the 5% of the time, single coil pickups have been around forever, thousands of pros use them on gigs every night, so I guess they are choosing the (what they hear as) superior tone over the noise? I just keep thinking how many amazing tone I love were recorded using CCs and P90s, not to to mention telecasters, Strats.... I recently got an electric solidbody with humbuckers for the reasons being discussed, and our rehearsal space is very noisy... and it really just didn't matter. Sure, it cancels out thew 60Hz hum, but the rest of the various noises still get through anyway...
TO ME, after this "experiment" of my own, the choice between humbucker or single coil is almost exclusively one of TONE, not function.
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HAHA yes. That's exactly why I started this thread... believe me, I've been down that road many times, trying to make something into something it's not. And sometimes I've had reasonable success with it.... but after all these years, I don't do that anymore. I just accept a piece of gear for what it is, and like it or don't. It's just easier that way! I like keeping things simple as I get older (I'm 51). Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
Now, I'll still swap a bridge, or pickups.... heck I even put a tone switch (Gretsch) into my Hot Rod (which did not come with one, and is actually antithetical to it's design of being "stripped down" LOL)... but yeah I'm done going to great lengths to "make something into something I want".
In the case of this OP, my Gretsch 6120 with Filtertron pickups, it is a fully-hollow guitar, all maple, with trestle braces... so it's more hollow than a 335, but a little less hollow than, say, an L5. But I think the pickups more than anything are holding it back from the woody, jazzy tones I'm looking for.... they are very mid-scooped pickups, and I think MIDS is something that helps with a "woody" sound... also, putting an all-wood bridge on it would likely help, but, I'm not interested in that, that would then lose what this guitar actually is.
I was really just wondering if there were any "tricks", like "turn the amp UP and the guitar DOWN", or something like that... but a Gretsch sounds like a Gretsch, no matter what... for better or worse... it'll never sound like an L5 or ES-125.... it's NOT just about EQ...
But hey, that's ok. With the right amp, and the tone switch on the guitar, I can get my 6120 into ES-295 territory... which is really what the Gretsch is anyway, it's more of a 295 thing... made to play electrically, the acoustic sound was not paramount in it's design... I'm sure if I put P90s on this guitar, I could get it to sound VERY much like a 295... which still isn't an L5 with a CC, or an old ES-125/150, of course. And, that's not why I bought this guitar anyway- I bought it for rockabilly sounds, and at that, it excels. I just don't really play that stuff too much, and I don't want to sell the guitar because it's been with me a long time, I love the wood & wire itself.... I've put alot of time in on it over the years.... so I guess, when I decide I've had enough of not being able to get the woody tone I'm after, I'll have to buy another guitar LOL.... I'll have to sell a couple first, they have been piling up as of late....
So: summary: I could try single coils to see if that helps (TV Jones T-Armonds, or maybe some P90s). Both would get me some more mids, and a "purer" tone (that's just how I personally hear single coils vs humbuckers... I hear more of the "string" with single coils). Beyond that, I'll just enjoy it for what it is, and look into getting something else for the woody tone thing... maybe a Godin or a Loar... I keep coming back to the ES-125 esthetic...
Hmm... come to think of it... I wonder if Pete Biltoft at Vintage Vibe would be able to make me a set of his CC pickups, that fit into Filtertron-sized holes? Hmm...
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well well... lookee what I found...
Pete Biltoft Vintage Vibe:
P90s in Filtertron cover, and CC pickups for Gretsch guitars...
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That voyage through the ocean of pickups is a long one, often involving circling back several times and hearing ones from years ago in a completely different way, falling in and out of love.
Most of the greats switched from single coil to humbucker. Many didn't. I wonder if Charlie Christian would have.
Here's a voice from the 1960s who played some of the most pleasant and interesting jazz music with a flattop and a single coil. He was a man who died way too soon.
Here is a tune that sounded quite good on relatively unpopular pickups. The Beatles did use flatwounds.
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Yes, the "pickup quest" is a long one, lol, especially if you have more than a couple guitars!!
Jazz on a flattop? Why not. Bickert played a tele. Django played a flattop. Les Paul played a... Les Paul lol.
It's an interesting journey, because it starts out wanting to emulate favorite tones you've loved over the years, but somewhere along the way, you hopefully find a tone that resonated with YOU and how you play. Regardless of what the pickup, guitar, or amp is. Good music is good music. The gear quest has been fun all these years, I think I'm just getting tired of searching, and just want to play instead lol.
I sometimes wonder if, when I'm a "senior", I'll be happy sitting here with just my old tele and my Princeton.
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I have no idea what percent of participants here play outside their homes. All I can do is speak from my own experience and observation. I have 60hz hum with clean sounds at home and some of the other places I was playing regularly (jam sessions, occasional gigs, get-togethers with other players, rehearsals at rehearsal studios) . It's a frequent topic of conversation among players I know, and based on how often the topic comes up here, it's common here too. I have both single coil and humbucker guitars and I like both sounds, so hum is not the exclusive reason I gravitate toward the humbucker ones, but it's a factor, Originally Posted by ruger9
John
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I mean, I always was envious of this guy's tone:
His sound was pretty good on this Gibson model:
All in good fun, right?
Love that clear sound... Wish I could find dynasonics that worked for my guitar. Humbuckers sound great, but dynos sparkle and bring out everything that makes a clean electric guitar tone sound so special
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dyna's are great..highly overlooked by jazzers...great for clean hi-fi jazz tone with tight low end and crisp highs...
i, what kind of pickup mount does your guitar need..still using zoller?
cheers
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I can say you will be happy with that, or most anything else for that matter. Hearing loss has it's up side :-) EG: The bum ear is the one I point up when I'm trying to get some sleep next to my snoring woman. Originally Posted by ruger9
Another decade or 2 and I'll be happy just to be alive and hearing!
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gibson j160-e was an electric guitar..it was originally offered with a florentine cutaway ...it had a laminate top to reduce feedback...and the single coil pup with toploaded control knobs...flats work well on 'em...as beatle purists know! Originally Posted by Marty Grass
szabo used a martin with a dearmond soundhole pup
cheers
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Still the Zoller. The MXR boost pedal that a friend from LA gifted me really cleared up the mud and gave me better balance. Originally Posted by neatomic
The last mod I will do to my guitar is to get a pickguard that actually fits the dang thing properly.
But that Dyna really has an ethereal sound. Love Billy Bean's tone.
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i love the zoller pups...both floater and (in now harder to find) in-body mounts...they were made to be very broad & flat frequencied....the idea being to dial in tone with guitar & amp knobs....having the right cap on the tone control pot works important wonders...the pickup is capable of doing almost anything...just gotta dial it in
why external eq pedal works...but...
i was on mailing list of shadow/zoller pups wayback...they were always interesting!!....zoller got it from the great pickup scientist- bill lawrence
great pups...
cheers
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What is your guitar? A floater? If so, I've never seen a Dyna floater... but there are plenty of great single coil floaters out there... Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
Love that clear sound... Wish I could find dynasonics that worked for my guitar. Humbuckers sound great, but dynos sparkle and bring out everything that makes a clean electric guitar tone sound so special
This one from a recent thread: Vintage Vibe CC... this one is pickguard mounted, but Pete Biltoft could easily make it neck mounted as well...
New CC for my EXL-1
And if your guitar has standard-sized mounted humbuckers, well head over to TV Jones... he has GREAT Dynamics called T-Armonds, and he has a Gibson-style mount (for pickup rings) for them.
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This is a test I made some years ago using 11 different archtops. Same song, same string gauge, amp setting and pick!
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I've seen Tal play this guitar in the eighties, when asking him about that floater attached to the PG he answered that it was for recording purposes. My guess is, that attaching a real floater and a wood bridge could make a guitar sound more woody.
and btw: my favorite Tal sound certainly does sound "woody" to my ears.
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I couldn’t agree more!!! I’ve tamed many a TOM with a wooden saddle! Originally Posted by guavajelly
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Pickup height and not too much bass on the amp.
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Neil LeVang on Lawrence Welk used a flattop for swing more than he did an archtop. Originally Posted by Marty Grass
Noted Guitarist Neil LeVang Passes | Vintage Guitar(R) magazine
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