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Originally Posted by icr
Maybe this is next....
currently, that's called the tonemaster series!....solid state that sounds just like tube! is what they said... way back when...same as now! hah...come back in 20 years, unlike tube amps, there won't be any left!
also will say late 60's was pre all this vintage gear love that exists today...many people wanted new gear!...tweeds were relics...the silverface tube fenders only became less desirable in retrospect!...also bands getting that new fender gear made younger or wannabe players want to have that same gear...
think of what jimi did for marshall!!
cheersLast edited by neatomic; 01-16-2021 at 08:48 PM. Reason: cl-
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01-16-2021 06:08 PM
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Silverface was still reviled only a few years ago. But Fender marketing made it cool again, not long after the failure of the Pawn Shop amps. Fender makes new amps that look like old amps. Fender has found living in the past to be profitable.
No wonder Gibson bought Mesa: point of difference.
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is that the latest Tonemaster? Originally Posted by icr
Yes, maybe I am older than everyone in Fender's marketing department, but when these silver face amps came out, nobody wanted them. They were forced on buyers that could not get used blackface and brown amps.
Maybe this is next....
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The Pro Reverb is nothing like the original - one channel instead of two, one speaker instead of two. I'd be more inclined to get the current Deluxe Reverb Custom 68 or 65 reissue.
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I’m not sure I agree with this. I was around and gigging when the silver-faced amps replaced the black-faced amps. No one cared about the “vintage” aspect then - they just wanted the latest thing. Newer and bigger was supposed to be better. I remember feeling that I was falling behind when some of my friends got shiny new silver-faced twins and I was still playing through an “outdated” black-faced vibrolux reverb. Even the Beatles plugged into silver-faced twins on the rooftop at Apple Records. I don’t think we realized that the old amps were as good as they were until years later. Originally Posted by icr
Keith
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They should reissue Jazzmaster.
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That's not the case with any of my peer group. There was ZERO acknowledgement of blackface vs silverface back then. We just bought whatever the shop had. The assumption was the newer models were better. It wasn't until years later that we realized the earlier ones sounded better. The silverface amps with master volume were VERY sought after by working musicians. Nobody knew anything about ultralinear output transformers or treble bleed capacitors. We just knew they were supposed to be more reliable. Originally Posted by icr
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The new Pro Reverb has the advantage of the 2x6L6 output stage over the Deluxe Reverb and should - in theory - stay clean longer when things get louder (depends on speaker efficiency and OT-size as well, I know), which could be desirable for guitarist gigging with hammond players or playing in big bands for example. Originally Posted by RobbieAG
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I just like amps. In my experience every one has some unique aspect (or two, or three) that sets me off (on a good day) in a creative direction. Turn a knob, any knob, and play with that sound for awhile. "Play" of course in the sense of like a kid - just "play."
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I’m not an amp expert by any means. But I always thought a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe with 6L6 tubes and 40 watts was half a twin also. Originally Posted by Little Jay
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completely different circuit. In theory the pro reverb should be nice but with all the changes they've made, who knows what voltages and transformers they are using. Many of the really good vacuum tube transformer manufacturers have gone belly up since the start of the pandemic. Originally Posted by fasteddie
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"So a speaker change might be helpful. I went to Weber 10F150, 50 watts (more head room than 25watt) light dope. $103"
Good choice and not a piggy bank breaker.
I don't use modern Fenders but if I were interested in one of these I'd wait awhile til a used came up for sale and save.30%.
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I was stationed abroad in the mid-'60's. At the time I had a '64 JBL-loaded Twin Reverb with me and a same-year, non-reverb Deluxe back at my mother's place. When I got rotated back to the states in '68 I'd be required to ship the amp back via military "hold baggage." As a sergeant had once explained to me "They take your s$#t and hold it until they're good and f%^&ing ready!" The trip down there had taken the amp four months and I didn't want to wait that long again so I sold it (and my L-4C) to a guy in a C&W band. Soon after I got back I went to Sam Ash in Brooklyn and told my salesman I was looking for another one--when I told him what had happened to the previous one he said "You shouldn't have done that; the new ones are crap." He was talking about the line of SS amps. I bought a '68 silverface Bandmaster. The other guitar player in my band had a '68 SF Twin Reverb with JBLs and it was a great amp. Nobody was complaining about SF tube amps back then. Originally Posted by jzucker
Danny W.
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I agree with Jack: the Hot Rod (and Blues) Deluxe has a different circuit that steers away a bit further from the AB763 circuit and sounds different imho.... Originally Posted by fasteddie
In fact, I swapped out the pots, caps and resistors in the tone stack and the long tail PI to AB763 values and put a 12at7 as PI tube in my ‘93 Blues Deluxe amp and like it a whole lot better. Comes much closer to half a Twin like that.
But as Jack mentioned: voltages and trafos play a role as well! Curious to see a schematic with voltages for that new Pro Reverb. The high voltage on the anodes of the first 12ax7 gives that bright clean Twin Reverb sound.
I also found the 820 ohm value for the negative feedback resistor mandatory for the Twin Reverb sound and Fender states they have reduced the nfb in the new Pro Reverb (by upping that resistor value, probably to 10K or 22K), but that’s an easy change if you’re handy with the soldering iron. (That’s also what brings the 68 Custom back into 65 territory, btw.)
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This was my thought. I was pretty excited when I saw the Pro Reverb, because I expected it to be a Princeton/Deluxe type thing with more headroom. It sounds to me like it's being marketed to rockers, though. I found this on Sweetwater: "Fender also tweaked the amp's negative feedback to give it increased touch sensitivity, and it also starts to overdrive faster." Originally Posted by Little Jay
I'm not too sure about those Neo speakers either. They are lighter, but I've heard they aren't great for band mixes or jazz. They have a really nice, shimmery treble and boomy bass, which sounds good in a shop or youtube demo, but the midrange kinda suffers. We'll see...
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Originally Posted by IMadeYouReadThis
A huge proportion of guitar-related (including amps) ad budgets (and R&D emphasis) goes to rockers. Jazzers are outnumbered greatly. And, of course, a great many of us here at JGO have our guilty pasts, as well. 
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To be fair, Fender produces TWO George Benson signature models.
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The negative feedback is easily restored to Blackface specs, it’s just replacing one resistor. Easy peasy, even on the PCBs these amps have. Originally Posted by IMadeYouReadThis
I have Jensen NEO 12-100 speakers in my Fender Blues Deluxe and in my Session BluesBaby 22. I like them very much: very big but even sounding speakers. Bass is not boomy at all. I thing they are perfect in band mixes for jazz, because the have a nice complex voice in the mid-frequencies area. The only criticism could be they sound too civilised for some tastes. But it’s one of my favourite speakers!
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I must admit that I'm looking forward to the vibro champ. Gonna try it and if it sounds good .. I'm going to buy it .. Plain and simple
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Don’t forget it’s only a 5 watt amp... great for playing at home (love my 5F1 for that!) and maybe small and quiet gigs. But if you’re cool with that: go for it! Originally Posted by Lobomov
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The good thing is: many amps that rock at high gain volume-levels are great clean jazz amps at normal civilised volume levels! Originally Posted by citizenk74
A huge proportion of guitar-related (including amps) ad budgets (and R&D emphasis) goes to rockers. Jazzers are outnumbered greatly. And, of course, a great many of us here at JGO have our guilty pasts, as well.
(which is why we don’t really need amps for jazzers..... 
)
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Also lower gain tube in V1? 5751.....
Originally Posted by Little Jay
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Next best thing, 2020 Fender Deluxe reverb Tonemaster amp mint/excellent. And I happen to have one for sale on the Gear Page and local Craigslist.
Originally Posted by Tal_175
They should reissue Jazzmaster.
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Funny, the Pro Reverb is the one silverface amp you can still get for cheap
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I had the Vibrolux version of this "drip edge" re-issue series -- it was the worst amp I have ever owned. I literally could not put it back in the box to be returned fast enough. As another member posted above, this series is not an homage to an original '68 circuit, it is a newer more modern circuit that sounds little like the amps they resemble.
The Vibro champ seems like a Princeton wannabe -- if I was shopping that amp, I would get a 12" Princeton for the same money and smile with every chord played.
-Chris
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