Guitar Returned from Reverb Buyer with Finish Cracks

[Bill Eisele]

My immediate reaction when seeing those lacquer checks is not damage or impact, it's just a risk of sending a guitar during the winter.

Even with FedEx air, you're talking about, according to their own documents, a range of anywhere between 35 to 85 degrees F depending on the location in the cargo hold.

I sent a Les Paul to Chicago, from NYC, during the dead of winter. The guitar arrived with very faint checking on the headstock. Luckily, I had taken very high resolution pics of the guitar during packing. The buyer was reasonable, just asked if there was checking when I sent it. When I said no, he was fine since he could reference the pictures to see I wasn't lying.

Reverb *should* be able to see your pics from before and know the guitar returned in different condition than when it was sent.

I would have said it was all from cold weather except that the shipping box has some damage to it where the top or back would be located. I should have paid more attention to the orientation of the case when I removed it from the box. I had sent the guitar out to the buyer via UPS 2 day air and he mentioned nothing about any finish issues. But when he didn't want the guitar Reverb insisted on sending it back via UPS ground and that's when I believe the damage occurred. So, hard to say about impact vs. weather checking. Could be both.

[BBGuitar]

The last time I ordered a new guitar sight unseen. I had our local music store order it with a small deposit. That way I could inspect it for damage before accepting it. Any damage would be the stores problem.

[Bill Eisele]

I agree with everything you say here, Steve, except that I’ve never had an issue shipping any way I prefer if I sell something on Reverb. I’d be interested in knowing the details. Do you think the seller just didn’t want to ship that way?

I had shipped the guitar to the buyer via UPS 2 day air but when the buyer wanted to return the guitar due to a perceived problem with the action, Reverb insisted on sending it back UPS ground at their expense and that's when the damage occurred I believe. I wanted it sent back via UPS 2 day air but they wouldn't budge. So, now they have to deal with paying for damages and depreciation on the guitar.

[Bill Eisele]

After reading all these posts it seems the only no risk buy is to buy a archtop from QAman if and when he sells one.
Gryphon also has a Heritage policy and have told me that they pay up immediately on a damage claim. No questions asked. Unlike fully insuring with UPS which means a court battle.Attachment 77938Attachment 77939

Ouch!!! I have been remiss in not insuring my instruments. Wondering what experience forum members have with Clarion versus Heritage?

[HeyNow]

I would have said it was all from cold weather except that the shipping box has some damage to it where the top or back would be located. I should have paid more attention to the orientation of the case when I removed it from the box. I had sent the guitar out to the buyer via UPS 2 day air and he mentioned nothing about any finish issues. But when he didn't want the guitar Reverb insisted on sending it back via UPS ground and that's when I believe the damage occurred. So, hard to say about impact vs. weather checking. Could be both.

In order for the F hole to flex to cause the finish checking due to impact, the top would have to have been pressed down which would have meant the case lid would have to have collapsed a few inches - you would see damage to the case. You would have seen finish cracks on the same side of the f holes (bottom or top) but they are on top of one and the bottom of the other.

I also don't see how the check next to bass side of the neck could occur from impact without causing damage where we do not see any e.g. near the side rims. In a hard case, you cannot directly impact that area.

[Bill Eisele]

In order for the F hole to flex to cause the finish checking due to impact, the top would have to have been pressed down which would have meant the case lid would have to have collapsed a few inches - you would see damage to the case. You would have seen finish cracks on the same side of the f holes (bottom or top) but they are on top of one and the bottom of the other.

I also don't see how the check next to bass side of the neck could occur from impact without causing damage where we do not see any e.g. near the side rims. In a hard case, you cannot directly impact that area.

There are cracks emanating from the top and bottom of both f holes. Just hard to see from the photos. What isn’t great is that the Eastman hard case lid isn’t arched and flexes quite a bit when pushed down on. But it could all be from cold weather checking. Bottom line is that the cracks are there and I have to deal with it.

Reverb is requesting written repair estimates and the first one I have received isn’t anywhere as high as I was expecting. The guitar was listed at $2300 and depreciating the guitar based on the repair would still have it priced above $2000. No one will buy the guitar for that amount.

[ThatRhythmMan]

In order for the F hole to flex to cause the finish checking due to impact, the top would have to have been pressed down which would have meant the case lid would have to have collapsed a few inches - you would see damage to the case. You would have seen finish cracks on the same side of the f holes (bottom or top) but they are on top of one and the bottom of the other.

I also don't see how the check next to bass side of the neck could occur from impact without causing damage where we do not see any e.g. near the side rims. In a hard case, you cannot directly impact that area.

If the guitar could shift at all inside the case should a blow occur, those finish crack cold easily occur. I’ve seen tops broken in several places from a similar situation with absolutely no damage to the case. I’ve never seen finish checking from temp changes so localized.

[skiboyny]

If the guitar could shift at all inside the case should a blow occur, those finish crack cold easily occur. I’ve seen tops broken in several places from a similar situation with absolutely no damage to the case. I’ve never seen finish checking from temp changes so localized.

Have to totally agree with this! I'd even go one step further and say that just the impact of a drop on its face could cause damage to the instrument and not touch the case. Happens all the time they call it concealed damage!

[HeyNow]

If the guitar could shift at all inside the case should a blow occur, those finish crack cold easily occur. I’ve seen tops broken in several places from a similar situation with absolutely no damage to the case. I’ve never seen finish checking from temp changes so localized.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

This top is not broken.

Localized checks from cold weather happen all the time.

FRETS.COM

[Stefan Eff]

Sorry for your bad luck!

Concerning the shipping game:
I‘ve made good experiences with two packages: pack the guitar the professional way safe in it’s case (unstrung, bridge removed, no movement in the case and so on) in one guitar box with no movement possible and pack this box in another, bigger box with bubble wrap foil in every possible gap. You can also use styrofoam all around the first box.
More expensive but a lot safer than just one box.

[Bill Eisele]

Sorry for your bad luck!

Concerning the shipping game:
I‘ve made good experiences with two packages: pack the guitar the professional way safe in it’s case (unstrung, bridge removed, no movement in the case and so on) in one guitar box with no movement possible and pack this box in another, bigger box with bubble wrap foil in every possible gap. You can also use styrofoam all around the first box.
More expensive but a lot safer than just one box.

Thank you, Stefan. I think your advice is excellent. It will be more expensive because UPS and FedEx use something called dimensional weight but it will definitely provide a lot more protection and a lot less aggravation. And, styrofoam would probably provide some insulation as well to keep temperatures more stable inside the case.