Japanese 175 type - is there something off?

[Little Jay]

Gary,

These types of old bargain bucket ES-175 imports (bargain bucket = Treble and Bass plate around selector switch, not rubber grommet like Ibanez/Greco) are imo, not any better than the Korean ones proceeding them. And with the work you're even contemplating doing; you should run a mile.

I don't rate the cheaper Maxon pickups and when I was buying Japanese imports, Maxon's were considered the least preferable pickups in the early Ibanez guitars.

The condor being shown to you is not the same type of Es-175 copy and they're not comparable.

AH, my Condor came with the black plastic treble/bass ring around the pickup switch. I cut out a bigger hole and added the rubber grommet myself ;-) The Condor is in the lower grade copies category but is actually a really nice guitar, especially after the pickup upgrade. The good thing about it (to me) compared to some more expensive Ibanez and Greco branded copies, is that is has a mahogany (-type of wood) neck, which I prefer over a maple neck

I think the most distinguishing feature in these ES-175 copies is the method of supporting the top: bracing or sound post. (The Condor has a sound post.)

[garybaldy]

Gary, my Condor came with the black plastic treble/bass ring around the pickup switch. I cut out a bigger hole and added the rubber grommet myself ;-)

Thanks LJ
Do you think it's worth going for as it does seem to match the Condor in many respects? I wouldn't spend much on it. Any tweaking I'd do myself. But it's a fair bit more than what you paid for the Condor.
Cheers

[Little Jay]

Thanks LJ
Do you think it's worth going for as it does seem to match the Condor in many respects? I wouldn't spend much on it. Any tweaking I'd do myself. But it's a fair bit more than what you paid for the Condor.
Cheers

Tough call, it would depend entirely on the money involved I guess.

If the pickups sound good and the price is low than it’s a bargain guitar.

If the price is high and you want to replace the pickups then you would surely be able to get equally good or better guitars for the same or even less money....

And that’s assuming no other costs are involved (refret for example).

[garybaldy]

Tough call, it would depend entirely on the money involved I guess.

If the pickups sound good and the price is low than it’s a bargain guitar.

If the price is high and you want to replace the pickups then you would surely be able to get equally good or better guitars for the same or even less money....

And that’s assuming no other costs are involved (refret for example).

Thanks again for your comments. I have actually 'won' the auction! Just this minute! Decided to take the plunge as I've regretted not buying guitars in the past (- not least a Cromwell with a monkey on a stick for very little money - didn't really know what it was nor was I too interested in archtops at the time). A couple of people started bidding so foolishly I joined in! Anyway if it turns out to be a bit of a loss, so be it. I'm pretty confident that I'll be happy with it - fingers crossed!
Cheers.

[Little Jay]

Haha cool! Congratulations! Keep us updated!

[TOMMO]

Haha cool! Congratulations! Keep us updated!

What Jay said! We're curious!

[Little Jay]

Did you get it already?

[garybaldy]

Did you get it already?

Hi LJ
It's on it's way now. But I had a slight prob with seller on ebay regarding the click and collect option that was available and which I chose. I prefer to collect just in case I'm out if delivered to my home. He didn't realise his listing had that option and was reluctant to post to a collection point - concern over insurance cover. It all got a bit convoluted. Anyway I've had a bit of a refund and a friend of mine is a courier so he'll be getting it to me.
Cheers

[Little Jay]

I am almost as excited as you are

[Rocket Roll]

I am almost as excited as you are

If I may be of help to you gentlemen, feel free to ask, my (presumably 1969) Aria 2302 is hanging on the wall behind me as I type this.

[Little Jay]

Sure! Out of curiosity: the Aria is a higher grade copy with bracings and kerfed lining inside, right? Or does it also have a sound post? (Like their Herb Ellis model.)

Aria used a slightly different body shape, which I find a bit of a shame, but it’s only cosmetic of course. What kind of ply did Aria use for the top? 3 or 5-ply? (My Condor has a 3-ply as the original, modern copies mostly use 5 ply I noticed).

Mahogany neck?

[garybaldy]

I am almost as excited as you are

My courier friend is doing it as a favour and fitting it in to suit himself and a convenient pick up time. I know it'll travel safely. Hope I get it before Xmas!!!!!

[garybaldy]

Sure! Out of curiosity: the Aria is a higher grade copy with bracings and kerfed lining inside, right? Or does it also have a sound post? (Like their Herb Ellis model.)

Aria used a slightly different body shape, which I find a bit of a shame, but it’s only cosmetic of course. What kind of ply did Aria use for the top? 3 or 5-ply? (My Condor has a 3-ply as the original, modern copies mostly use 5 ply I noticed).

Mahogany neck?

Some interesting specs for me to check on.

[Rocket Roll]

The Aria is a higher grade copy with bracings and kerfed lining inside, right? Or does it also have a sound post? (Like their Herb Ellis model.)

It's got the kerfed lining, ie. kerfing, but it does have a soundpost. I'm not familiar with Matsumoku models without it - there could be some, I'm by no means an expert on Matsumoku, but from what I've understood, the name of the game was "stability". Apparently Japanese wanted to make their guitars ultra-stable and therefore soundposts and three-piece maple necks, spliced heels and all. In other words - "it's not a bug, it's a feature".

The first part of this video I find very informative:

And here are some pictures of that soundpost and kerfing. Nice workmanship. Not the greatest in the world, but still.

What kind of ply did Aria use for the top? 3 or 5-ply? (My Condor has a 3-ply as the original, modern copies mostly use 5 ply I noticed).

Three-ply, I believe. It's too thin to be five-ply. My Aria has got soundpost binding, I can't be sure, but - the thickness of the top is 4.3-4.4mm (.169-.173 inches), whereas my Gibson ES-335 from 2016. measures at about 6.6mm (.259 inches), and my Indonesian Epiphone Swingster (which is Epiphone Joe Pass + Bigsby and Gretsch-a-like splittable humbuckers) measures at about 5.9mm (.231 inches). Gibson and Epiphone are three-ply, so...

Mahogany neck?

It looks like maple with a center-seam? I'm the worst when it comes to recognizing woods. What do you think?

[Little Jay]

Oh boy, hard to tell the neck wood from the pictures.... I think maple, yes. Maybe there’s an unfinished spot under the trussrod cover?

[lawson-stone]

For the Aria Pro II PE180 and equivalents, no sound-post, 7-ply laminate, no scarf joint/heel splice. Feels solid as a tank.

[Rocket Roll]

Oh boy, hard to tell the neck wood from the pictures.... I think maple, yes. Maybe there’s an unfinished spot under the trussrod cover?

I'd have to go with maple according to that unfinished part too. Very white wood.

[garybaldy]

At last, took delivery of this today!
Neck relief was massive but TR nut was total loose. So started to gradually tighten it. Looks good so far!! Strings - look about 30 years old and roundwound. So a few more things to do. Haven't plugged it in yet but acoustically nice and mellow.
Not sure why pics on their side, sorry.

[Woody Sound]

I don't think even a neck reset would fix this alignment. Look at the strings over the bridge pickup esp high e. Maybe move the tail toward the treble side for a simpler solution and better result.

[garybaldy]

I don't think even a neck reset would fix this alignment. Look at the strings over the bridge pickup esp high e. Maybe move the tail toward the treble side for a simpler solution and better result.

Yeah, I don't think the 'alignment' is much of an issue. With a bit of scrutiny, the neck and neck pickup seem to align well. The tailpiece can be repositioned slightly with no old screw holes showing. I think the bridge pickup is slightly out of position but it looks worse because of the pole screw spacing being different to the string spacing. It probably won't be much of an audio issue. I doubt if I'll use in anyway.
I need to get my default chrome 12s on it asap.
Cheers

[lawson-stone]

Actually to me, the neck, neck PU, bridge PU, and bridge look pretty much okay. The tailpiece is askew and that creates the impression of a much bigger problem. I bet if you replace the tailpiece, or just look at it carefully and see if it's been damaged, mis-mounted, etc. you'll find a pretty easy fix for this. Zooming in, the strings seem aligned over the pole pieces of both pickups acceptably and the spacing over the fingerboard seems fine to me. This looks to me like a tailpiece problem only. Could be wrong, I'm just working with the pics posted, but I'm thinking you might have scored a nice guitar here.

[garybaldy]

Actually to me, the neck, neck PU, bridge PU, and bridge look pretty much okay. The tailpiece is askew and that creates the impression of a much bigger problem. I bet if you replace the tailpiece, or just look at it carefully and see if it's been damaged, mis-mounted, etc. you'll find a pretty easy fix for this. Zooming in, the strings seem aligned over the pole pieces of both pickups acceptably and the spacing over the fingerboard seems fine to me. This looks to me like a tailpiece problem only. Could be wrong, I'm just working with the pics posted, but I'm thinking you might have scored a nice guitar here.

Thanks.
Your view is exactly as I see it in the flesh.
The TR was completely loose and the neck was particularly bowed. It responded well to tightening but I may have reached the end of the tread. May have to add a washer or two. Don't want to snap the rod!!

[Little Jay]

Looks fine to me, twailpiece just is a little funny.



I got one of these on AliExpress for just 18 USD and the quality seems perfectly alright:

[garybaldy]

Looks fine to me, twailpiece just is a little funny.



I got one of these on AliExpress for just 18 USD and the quality seems perfectly alright:

I was wondering whether to change to that style. I like them both. Looks a good deal.
I shall spend some time with the guitar before spending money - except strings!
Thanks LJ

[Little Jay]

Always wise to first play it and wait with spending money

It looks exactly like my Condor when that was still original, every detail. I read Condor was made by Tombo, so if that’s true then yours probably came from Tombo as well.