European prices for vintage guitars

[DB's Jazz Guitar Blog]

Checked out some Reverb listings for European based sellers and noted some asking prices in US dollars. I do not think you can talk down these asking prices with 1000s of dollars. My guess is a few hundred at best. Kind of depressing right?

Netherlands:
1949 Gibson ES 5 10.785
1956 Gibson ES 175 11.289

UK:
1949 Gibson ES350: 11.005
1949 Gibson ES5 12.388
1961 Gibson ES175 10.322
1954 Gibson ES125 3577
1968 Gibson Barney Kessel 6192
1960 Gibson ES125 3296

France:
1947 Gibson ES150 4288
1953 Gibson ES175 9433
1963 Gibson Tal Farlow 16.779

Not even talking vintage Super 400 (30k+) or L5 (20K-30k)

DB

[Fred Archtop]

Confirmed Mr. DB ! Incredible prices here in Paris.

But you can try your luck and bargain. I did this several times. Yes, you can cut several grand on them!

Best.

[Gitterbug]

We all know that USA is a sales tax haven compared to Europe. Germany I believe currently charges 17% VAT following a Corona-induced reduction from 19%. Most other EU countries levy 20-25%, with Hungary leading the pack with 27%. So there's room for discount for a non-EU buyer.

By contrast, when Europeans buy from overseas, they have to add the sales tax, possibly a customs duty and of course the shipping cost. Still, some of the items on this website's "for sale" section look like a bargain compared to your findings. But those European prices are walking in the air like Wile E. Coyote, not realizing they are in free fall. I actually predict a flow of vintage - and contemporary - archtops to Europe, given that the Pandemic is likely to create more "must sell" situations in the US, where health insurance is/was often provided by the (ex-) employer. The weaker dollar also kicks in.

I'll be very happy if times to come will prove me wrong.

[DB's Jazz Guitar Blog]

Confirmed Mr. DB ! Incredible prices here in Paris.

But you can try your luck and bargain. I did this several times. Yes, you can cut several grand on them!

Best.

I am not in the market for a vintage guitar myself at the moment. The 350 and the 125 are all I need in the vintage department. Just wanted to indicate the ridiculous asking prices in Europe. By the way, I do not have the experience that you can bargain down the price with thousands of dollars over here.

DB

[DB's Jazz Guitar Blog]

We all know that USA is a sales tax haven compared to Europe. Germany I believe currently charges 17% VAT following a Corona-induced reduction from 19%. Most other EU countries levy 20-25%, with Hungary leading the pack with 27%. So there's room for discount for a non-EU buyer. By contrast, when Europeans buy from overseas, they have to add the sales tax, possibly a customs duty and of course the shipping cost. Still, some of the items on this website's "for sale" section look like a bargain compared to your findings. But those European prices are walking in the air like Wile E. Coyote, not realizing they are in free fall. I actually predict a flow of vintage - and contemporary - archtops to Europe, given that the Pandemic is likely to create more "must sell" situations in the US, where health insurance is/was often provided by the (ex-) employer. The weaker dollar also kicks in. I'll be very happy if times to come will prove me wrong.

Yes. Vintage prices are insane over here in Europe. Especially from "reputable" dealers. Buying from private owners is way more interesting.

Importing a guitar from the US into my country will add about 25% to the price you paid (shipping, insurance and import duties).

DB

[cmajor9]

Sellers always like to highlight the relative rarity of archtops-especially vintage American ones-here in Europe as a justification for high prices. Of course, this is true, but the market of potential buyers is smaller as well.

Often prices seem quite optimistic, given how long the guitars sit unsold.

[GTRMan]

Support your local luthier. :0

[John A.]

I am not in the market for a vintage guitar myself at the moment. The 350 and the 125 are all I need in the vintage department. Just wanted to indicate the ridiculous asking prices in Europe. By the way, I do not have the experience that you can bargain down the price with thousands of dollars over here.

DB

I imagine that the fact that you can't just hop on a plane to the US and buy a guitar there (here) has pushed prices up considerably in Europe. Before COVID-19, a large portion of the customers in NYC music stores were European.

John

[DB's Jazz Guitar Blog]

I imagine that the fact that you can't just hop on a plane to the US and buy a guitar there (here) has pushed prices up considerably in Europe. Before COVID-19, a large portion of the customers in NYC music stores were European. John

Even if you pick up the guitar in the US, you'd be importing so import duties would apply in Europe. I don't think this was different pre Covid.

DB

[Stringswinger]

This does not surprise me. It should be noted that the best Gypsy guitars (Selmer style) come from France (Dupont, Favino etc.) and here in the USA bring a premium price over what an EU buyer may pay.

[John A.]

Even if you pick up the guitar in the US, you'd be importing so import duties would apply in Europe. I don't think this was different pre Covid.

DB

Yes, but people could (and did) get away with saying they didn't buy the instruments on their trips, especially used instruments.

John

[Alter]

I imagine that the fact that you can't just hop on a plane to the US and buy a guitar there (here) has pushed prices up considerably in Europe. Before COVID-19, a large portion of the customers in NYC music stores were European.

John

Exactly. The last few years though you had the possibility of having a problem with taking the guitar aboard the plane. You had to do your homework regarding which airline to choose..

[Hammertone]

Importing a guitar from the US into my country will add about 25% to the price you paid (shipping, insurance and import duties).

Not quite. Importing a guitar from the US (and Canada) into a European country (and the UK) will add about 25% to the DECLARED VALUE (shipping, insurance and import duties). There can be a big difference. Of course, I know nothing about such matters.

[christianm77]

I think Reverb is generally overpriced tbh. Perhaps I’m naive. I see guitars sit there. Things like used high end Eastmans going for 4 grand.

[TedBPhx]

Back in the ‘90s a small local music shop owner told me about a French couple he sees twice a year when they stop in to pick up two Strats. Apparently they were allowed to bring back one each as personal, no import fees, and sell them for enough of a markup to make it worth the trip. No vintage involved.

[icr]

The market is up. Depressing?? Depressing would be if my vintage gear was all worthless.

[waltf]

Checked out some Reverb listings for European based sellers and noted some asking prices in US dollars. I do not think you can talk down these asking prices with 1000s of dollars. My guess is a few hundred at best. Kind of depressing right?

UK:

1954 Gibson ES125 3577
1960 Gibson ES125 3296


DB

Yeah but those reverb listings are just way overpriced. I just missed a 50's es125 that was sold for 1250 euro locally (that one hurt). I know a 66 thats currently for sale at 1500 euro.

[stevus]

Yes, but people could (and did) get away with saying they didn't buy the instruments on their trips, especially used instruments.

John

Sure, you are good when they don't stop you at customs. But if they do, you may be in trouble. The people at customs have heard every story and they are thorough.

[Dennis D]

Still the test isn't seeing high asking prices .. It's following those guitar in order to see if they move or just sit

That was my thought / question too: " Is it as difficult to determine a real money selling price overseas, as it is here in the US ? "

I'm guessing it is. It seems to me the more inflated the asking prices, the more it behooves these sellers to conceal final accepted sale prices.

Just MHO - -yes / no ???

[christianm77]

Yeah but those reverb listings are just way overpriced. I just missed a 50's es125 that was sold for 1250 euro locally (that one hurt). I know a 66 thats currently for sale at 1500 euro.

Yeah I don’t think anyone is buying an ES125 for three grand +. Maybe absolutely mint museum quality, but even then?