-
Originally Posted by GTRMan
I dug that.
#bring backES125
-
07-17-2020 03:07 PM
-
"A working musician is defined as someone who earns $4,800.00 to $18.000 per year from gigs. (???)" GTRman
Classic! Play live! . . . Marinero
-
Originally Posted by Marinero
So,
One (1) $100.00 gig per week, for 48 weeks is minimum?
Three to four (3-4) such gigs a week, for 48 weeks is maximum?
I don't know, you guys tell me. At any rate, that certainly won't fund too many L5s. Another primary job (not secondary) would be needed, or one might have to live with their parents (or have a wife who earns a nice living). Something like that.Last edited by GTRMan; 07-18-2020 at 09:14 AM.
-
Given that list of genres, archtop-ey guitars are not only used in jazz. I've seen plenty of such guitars in R&B, country, blues etc. But they are generally not carved, it's gonna be some Gibson ES that gives some of that tone but doesn't feedback on stage.
This goes for jazzers too. Rozenwinkel, Sco, Metheny, Benson... that's not carved tops they are using on stage.
I recently got my first carved archtop, a Heritage Eagle, and as a non-brainwashed newcomer I can make the following observations.
1. The acoustic tone is not that great, I like my Lowden flattop way more (not just the Heritage, my teacher has a vintage carved Epi that's supposed to be da shiznit and it sounds comparable). I can see how that tone is useful in a historical big band setting, but that's a very specific narrow situation.
2. The electric tone doesn't sound like the acoustic tone much. It's like having two guitars. I can get a really nice blended tone if I sit at the right spot in front of the amp and set the volume right. But that's a lot of work and how do you get it right every time on different stages?
3. Lots of little irritating details. I have to keep my fingers off the pickguard because it's a thin piece of wood that sounds "tap tap" when my fingers brush across it. The part of the strings between bridge and tailpiece ring out sympathetically with certain notes, I'm gonna have to put some dampener there. The cable inside the body rattles sometimes.
4. Feedback at stage volumes.
5. I can get a good jazz tone with my tele.
So a carved archtop is not a very practical instrument. Although some players have really been able to work magic with these, others stuff a full mattress of cotton into them, tape over the f-holes and whatnot. I don't think this is a symptom of jazz dying out. It's a miracle that carved archtops still have people willing to put up with these issues. But maybe those people mostly play in home studios?
-
Originally Posted by GTRMan
This sounds about right. And the guys/gals who make around that much do so with a combination of gigs and teaching. Not enough bread to survive in most areas of the USA unless you have a wife/significant other bringing in as much or more.
That is enough bread for a Godin Kingpin or Korean DA. That said, an L-5 amortized over a 30 year career might be doable if a cat wanted an L-5 bad enough.
-
Originally Posted by frankhond
I don't disagree with your points, but I enjoy the subtle differences between a carved vs. laminate archtop amplified or not. They're just different animals.
-
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Honestly, these are poverty numbers for anyone but the young, single, and living in an affordable location. The problem is, the more affordable the location, the fewer the gigs and students, most likely.
That's why I made a subtle point that L5 pricing is the least of their concerns, or should be. Find something else, anything else.
-
Originally Posted by frankhond
"Stage volumes" these days means darned loud, right? Yeah, carved tops may have a problem there, although McLaughlin used a Johnny Smith on stage at very loud volumes throughout the 1990s.
The pick guard should not go "tap" when you "brush" it, but it should go tap when you tap it. I notice that too. The solution is to play with "quieter" more controlled hands.
An F-hole guitar with a pickup is not going to compete with a flat top (or archtop) with a nice oval or round hole guitar for unplugged acoustic tone, ever. On the other hand those round hole guitars sound bad when amplified, and feed back even more so. Each has it's intended use.
Carved tops have their place, just like all guitars. A small jazz ensemble in a relatively small space at reasonable volumes is the target.Last edited by GTRMan; 07-18-2020 at 09:18 AM.
-
Originally Posted by Gitterbug
-
Originally Posted by frankhond
Originally Posted by GTRManLast edited by Hammertone; 07-17-2020 at 11:54 PM.
-
Hmm.. Good archtops are available across the price and quality spectrum. Most any guitar player can have one. And if you want to spend $10K and something special, that's available from several sources. So what's the issue?
-
Originally Posted by Phil59
In my post I did not claim that I own or particularly like the 5th Avenue (I do and I don't). Many posters seem to like it, however. This thread amply proves that Gibson is part of Americana and, for many, an emotional issue. Sorry if I have hurt somebody. I have owned four samples of ES-175, two of which were lemons and the third one ok. The current 2014 ES-175 1959 VOS is my No.1 guitar, while there's nothing wrong with my 2007 Benedetto Bravo either. Both would benefit from more - and especially better - playing.
-
damned cork-sniffers:
-
Originally Posted by Hammertone
I don't think there is anything wrong with this guitar, I'm under the impression that it does what it's supposed to do. Which is kinda my point.
-
" I have to keep my fingers off the pickguard because it's a thin piece of wood that sounds "tap tap" when my fingers brush across it." Frank
Hi, F,
I use a neatly folded piece of paper towel under the unsupported section of the pickguard (mine:closest to the strings aft) which works perfectly and cannot be seen. Play live! Marinero
-
Originally Posted by Gitterbug
That's contradictory, no?
-
Originally Posted by Hammertone
There's these:
Cremona™ Guitar _ Benedetto Guitars.pdf
And then there's these.
Sinfonietta™ Guitar _ Sinfonietta™ Archtop Jazz Guitar _ Benedetto Guitars.pdf
Why go to the trouble of making the second, more expensive type if the first covers everything (tone and volume) and the second one only tone?
-
I have an honest question: when playing an electronic instrument where much of its sound, if not all, can be mixed/tweaked on an amplifier, can one really tell the difference between a $1,000. laminate archtop and a solid wood instrument that sells for $10,000? And, how much is there in the mystique of the instrument and its rarity/cost that may potentially bend the ears of its owner? For example, Chris Whiteman, a forum member, plays an ES125 that sounds as good as any L5 I've heard on this forum. My original '66 ES125TC --also an entry level Gibson ,in a blindfold test, would be difficult to distinguish from the solid wood archtops I've heard on this forum. How much is real . . . and how much is imagined? This, however, cannot be said about Classical/Flamenco solid wood acoustic guitars where there is a real quantifiable difference. Play live! . . . Marinero
-
Originally Posted by Marinero
-
Originally Posted by Marinero
Yep. The lam top has that thunk. The carved top not so much. Some prefer the former so I don't think one should think of it as the "cost" of sound, it's the characteristics.
-
"6. The Beatles did OK without them (true)"
Even if you were just kidding above, GTRMan, one could point out in reference to #6 that many of the Beatles' later songs were produced on Epi Casinos, which, though thin-lines, are hollow-body archtops. Early on, George Harrison used Gretsch archtops.
-
Originally Posted by Cunamara
-
Originally Posted by frankhondOriginally Posted by HammertoneOriginally Posted by frankhond
-
Originally Posted by Marinero
-
Very few pro guitarists own any real carved Archtops to make their living with. And even the few usually use laminate builds like John Pizzarelli, Julian Lage.
Like I said before for me, I'm just sad that the music itself that was made with these instruments is essentially dead. And that aside from the very few situations, people aren't interested in well composed music.
It really has become more of a Folk minimal harmony based form, where the lyrics are first and foremost.
And again not talking about the one off newer Jazz guys. I'm referring to to public's taste in music.
band in a box tabs..
Today, 10:52 AM in Recording & Music Software