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Originally Posted by Danny W.
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07-08-2020 08:21 AM
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I make semi-hollowbody guitars in 13.25, 14, 15 and 16" sizes and sales are strongest for the smallest and decrease as the size goes up.
I also make 15, 16, 17 and 18" archotps. Here sales are strongest for 16 and 17" with 15 and 18" being low.
I see that archtop customers are the most tradition bound. Semi-hollow buyers are a little more willing to step out. And of course solid body customers are even more willing. 15" archtops can sound really great, they just don't sound like and L5.
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The Gibson 15" ES 275 model introduced several years back was driven by younger Japanese jazz players wanted something like it.
As a hugh fan of 15" bodies, I immediately fell in love with this model. I owned 2 finish version.
Cherry red and beautiful Montrex vintage burst. The Cherry finish was the plain Jane. The other was beautiful. But the cost for a veneer top on the burst, just didn't make sense to me.
Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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Originally Posted by sgcim
Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
Originally Posted by Paulie2
Danny W.Last edited by Danny W.; 07-08-2020 at 12:44 PM.
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There was a time when the smaller body was the standard size for Gibson archtops. My L-1 is an absolute joy to play and it's so comfortable. The sonic balance is closer to the voice of a classical than the mid/low end emphasis of the modern day jazz box.
For small chamber groups and anything without a drummer, it's got an open sound with a really wood clarity I don't get on any other instrument.
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I'm pretty sure most people here are not thinking about small bodied acoustic archtops....but good ones can sound wonderful in their own right and can fit nicely in the mix or as solo instruments.
So appreciating the L-1 above.....thanks for your post. I had an L-3 once that had a voice that you described well.
I've got this '33 Epiphone Zenith....13.75" at the lower bout, 25.5" scale and the most magical sounding upper mids and trebles. The low end is no great shakes but serviceable. But one makes the most of the strengths of a good instrument and nothing else I have does what this one can do.
....and it sounds pretty big with a DeArmond rig!
Last edited by zizala; 07-08-2020 at 06:25 PM.
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For scale, here’s my 16” (it’s not 16.5”) Trenier next to my 15” Collings Eastside Jazz and Slaman Pauletta (Les Paul size).
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Originally Posted by coolvinny
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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I just wish there were gigs to use all of these beautiful guitars on!
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Originally Posted by Danny W.
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Not to crash your discussion, but I believe thats a Lee Ritenour L-5C Gibson. 15&1/2" width x 2&3/4" depth? There should be an archived page at gibson.com
with all specs and pics.
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9400111298370252107815 The Music Zoo in N.Y. has just listed a Gibson L-5ces Signature on there website $5.9k
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Indeed... yowza! It's like a smaller Johnny Smith kind of, even has the JS pickup
Gibson.com: Gibson Custom Lee Ritenour L-5Last edited by ruger9; 07-09-2020 at 09:28 PM.
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Originally Posted by jads57
The way things are going, it could be years before gigs return.
Even jam sessions, big band rehearsals, etc... are out of the question. A desperate trumpet player friend of mine has went to two rehearsals for a nine-piece band he's part of, and he says it sucks, because you have to sit so far away from everyone, you can't hear anybody!
Of course the rehearsals were held outside in one of the guys' backyard.
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I've owned a bunch of handmade 17" archtops by highly respected makers, as well as nice Gibsons. I always wondered, "Why does it have to be so big?"
Experience has shown me that 17" does not always sound "bigger" or have more bass response than 16" or even smaller. Here is a 15" archtop by Guillame Rancourt that uses some non-traditional methods of construction. Salvaged cedar top, Peruvian walnut back, braces are carved in to the top wood. Graphite reinforced neck, 3 1/4" depth.
It's now my only acoustic archtop. I sold the others because I only wanted to play this one. It has a huge dynamic range, a sweet, rich tone, and it's so much easier to handle because of it's size.
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[QUOTE=Gilpy;1046695]I've owned a bunch of handmade 17" archtops by highly respected makers, as well as nice Gibsons. I always wondered, "Why does it have to be so big?"
Experience has shown me that 17" does not always sound "bigger" or have more bass response than 16" or even smaller. Here is a 15" archtop by Guillame Rancourt that uses some non-traditional methods of construction. Salvaged cedar top, Peruvian walnut back, braces are carved in to the top wood. Graphite reinforced neck, 3 1/4" depth.
It's now my only acoustic archtop. I sold the others because I only wanted to play this one. It has a huge dynamic range, a sweet, rich tone, and it's so much easier to handle because of it's size.
I posted on this a couple of weeks ago and have decided to move forward with commissioning a build from Guillaume Rancourt partially based on Giply's recommendation. He is now offering an entry level guitar based on the same model as Gilpy has but with less of the appointments. Guillaume has been great to work with and has answered multiple questions including 15' vs 16' and choice of tonewoods. I've primarily played 17' archtops but I'm confident the Concerto will not lose any of the range and responsiveness of a larger guitar. I'll find out in about 14 months.
Standard Concerto Signature Acoustic Archtops – Rancourt Guitars
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Wow, it must be very exciting to commission a new Rancourt! If you have the option, I’d strongly suggest that you get a sound port on the side. Makes a huge difference in sound from the player’s perspective.
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Devoted 15" guy ...I think these days most players either migrated to archtops from solid body electrics or have to switch between them. My arm dynamics just adapt to the smaller body after decades of teles or strats or even 335's with the shallow depth.
Depending on the builder's goal, the usual benefit of a 16, 17 inch is the deeper acoustic bass from the larger body.
(All other things being equal)
The transition from music before the 60's to music after the 60's has resulted in louder drummers and louder amplification. In the 50's it was string bass (often unamplified) and a 15-20 watt amp.
Since then feedback has become an issue and my experience with full bodied archtops with a band often had me dialing down the bass on the amp to not get buried in the mix. Why 16,17" if I was dialing down the bass? I could get the EQ of the 15 into the amp without the struggle.
If you can relate to this ... the 15" goes a long way to adapting the archtop sound to a modern setting.
If I was to play my Monteleone (17") then all this gets thrown out the window because it feels and sounds like a Steinway. BUT ... Touring around 3 countries (pre pandemic) and hitting with some incredible but excitable drummers rendered the Monteleone useless. Even in duo the singer liked to be right next to me and she likes voice in the floor monitor.. I was getting that wooooof off the 17" in duo !
After searching, I discovered the Howard Roberts fusion and although it sounded like an electric ham sandwich (thanks Frank Zappa) ,the ergonomics had me feeling like a figure skater on the board.
I found a permanent soulmate in the Koll Ultraglide. If you have seen this model ... Saul Koll and I projected the first one and I sent him the dimensions of the HR. I`m sure he tweaked it but it was from that pedigree.
Suffice it to say , it doesn't sound like an electric ham sandwich. To counteract the loss of the larger body we put the K&K contact pickup inside the body and I can dial in a taste of it for that sexy string noise and a richer harmonic content. This is especially essential because I work alot in duo with a singer. In my eyes I'm getting the beauty of an archtop sound in something that is a little more unique. I love the archtop because if you want it to NOT sustain ...the envelope will drop off and you get a punch with a decay ....much like a stacatto trumpet player.
The guitar will stand up to a jab (I use 12's) yet still sing with sustain if desired. This is what a sax player does with long notes vs. tongued notes. If I try this on the 335 for instance, the note doesn't go into decay ...the inherent sustain from the solid block doesn't allow for me to cut off the note like a Clifford Brown phrasing does. I know ...put 12's on a 335 and listen to someone do it ...I have. BUT ...in my hands I can only get there with an archtop.
The thing is that you want a creamy dense thick note and you need it in a split second. A solid body either chokes out on the percussive jab or takes too long to deliver the juicy part of the note in a machine gun phrase. This Koll Ultraglide does things for me that I haven't heard in other archtops at a drummer volume. Each build is different but I'm convinced the 15" body is ground zero for this tone. In my case there is NO F-hole so Saul also had to build around a biased EQ. Here are some examples.
Can you hear the acoustic blend in the note ?
solo at 2:30
or here?
Brazilian music is based on the acoustic nylon so the K&K blend gets me a bit of that air into the electric archtop.
and with a band that a normal 16,17" would feed back over. If you got this far ..check out the popping in and out of the faster phrase at the end and the rich fat treble notes.
This is a post as much about paying tribute (aka pimping) to Saul Koll's build as it is to the 15" body
Last edited by WahmBomAh; 07-11-2020 at 12:07 PM.
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Originally Posted by Gilpy
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Originally Posted by WahmBomAh
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That's my guitar....And that's the video that convinced me to buy it! (I added a pickguard)
Another 15" guitar that I've owned was a Sadowsky SS-15. A great guitar with a flawless jazz sound plugged in and a pretty decent acoustic tone for a laminate. I sold it to buy a hand carved archtop that didn't sound as good!
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Originally Posted by gitman
with a 17" Monteleone
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Originally Posted by jads57
Elias Prinz -- young talent from Munich
Yesterday, 10:24 PM in The Players