Adjusting Stratocaster Pickups

[randyc]

Forgot to mention, some years ago (on some ultra-miniature hybrid microcircuits) "we" (meaning the skilled assemblers, not me) wound coils using 0.0007 inch diameter 99.99% (called "four nines") pure gold wire. Now THAT requires a delicacy of touch when compared to copper wire that is five times greater diameter with three times the tensile strength

PS FWIW, the circuits were made by "Space Systems", used in orbital hardware. One of the nicer jobs in my career -

[SamBooka]

how do you count the wraps?

[randyc]

Drew, if you are interested in how an engineer would approach a problem like this, depending upon the resources available, I'll describe how I'd do it. I suspect that's not actually the point of that question, however, so I'll refer you back to what I said a while ago:

"(And it's easier to re-wind an existing pickup than a new one because no turns need to be counted, you just wind until all of the old wire is back on the bobbin.)"

cheers,
randyc

[SamBooka]

I am pointing out for the people out there without your experience that if you have to completely unwind a pickup (and in this case you would) you are also dealing with a pickup that has been potted in lacquer that after 5-10 because very brittle (and we are what... 35 years on for that particular pickup). You propose to:
a) remove the wire without further damage to it or the enamel and

b) rewind it to comparable specs (I know you never explicitly said it)

When you rewind remember there will be slight bends in the wire where it looped around the original magnets. Would this not create little spaces and thus make for a large coil which would change the specs of the pickup?


Removing the pickup wire without breaking it, rewinding it close enough to the original so that the coil size is within a reasonable tolerance to the original, getting the tension on the coil comparable to the original etc is probably possible. Winding a pickup is a 20 min job. I understand you are a man of experience but you know you cant wind fast without putting tension on the wire (which even if it doesnt break it will stretch). Unwinding a pickup without breaking the wire and rewinding.. not 20 minutes.

[SamBooka]

Interesting reading

Vintage Guitars Info - Fender vintage guitar pickup specs, info

Remember kids.. this is the innner net.

[randyc]

Yes, if one has to rewind from the innermost turns, it would be better to use new wire, that's a very good point. All of the other points that you made are good ones too but the hand-winders (the boutique industry that's sprung up in the past ten years) ignore most, apparently their quality is adequate for their market - based on their success NOT based on my opinion.

Even Lollar makes the case for hand-winding (varying tension and arbitrary wire lay "add personality") in the article that I read, not that he is the last word on the subject but he HAS been doing this for a long time and the interview with him sort of sticks in my head.

Still I don't think that winding a pickup has to be a big deal, even for less-experienced do-it-yourselfers. Most of the guys that are in that business don't have very sophisticated equipment and they don't make very sophisticated measurements on their pickups so winding to "original specifications" isn't necessarily meaningful or a good thing. The originals were also not too consistent, from what I've read, until CBS did some updating in that area of manufacturing to reduce product variation.

If one was winding a new pickup, one might pick the AWG and spool size so that the finished pickup uses exactly one spool. This would offer a consistent length and number of turns adequate for most of us, I suspect. (E.g. from my wire table, I can find that one spool of 1/4-pound 40 AWG wire is about 8,300 feet, which would be a winding resistance 8881 ohms. BTW, I'm not suggesting that the resistance of a pickup has any more meaning than a fairly consistent indication of the wire length (and therefore number of turns).

Consult a copper wire table and using the resistance per 1000 feet enables the selection of a wire gauge for a single 1/4 pound spool of wire. Varying the AWG varies the number of turns and the D.C. resistance. That would probably be the most convenient way of achieving consistent results without building special tooling. (As an example, a turns counter doesn't produce more consistent pickups if the tension and lay of the wire are made by hand.)

If one wants to count turns (which avoids the above mathematical exercise), look online for a surplus place (MPJA.com is one that I frequently use) that offers counters, both mechanical and pulse-operated). Rig up a microswitch on a lathe or drill press - even a hand drill - to trigger the counter. Even simpler, if a mechanical counter is used, just position near the rotating object so that a pin trips the counter with every revolution.

I just took a look, here's three or four counters that would work fine for a couple of dollars:

http://www.mpja.com/products.asp?dept=158

Here's a 24 volt power supply to run the counter for about $15:

http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=16854+PS

Or this wall-wart for $8 would work fine:

http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=12637+PA

Here's how to configure the counter, on a lathe (I picked the lathe because many production winders seem to prefer using one) for example:



If I was going to wind pickups for a living, I'd make a winder. I'd buy a small drill press (about $70), mount it SIDEWAYS instead of vertically and use the feed handle to "lay" the wire, with spindle set at lowest speed and using a friction tensioner like the one in the above hand-sketch. If I had time, I'd replace the friction tensioner with a simple dead-weight tensioner, adjustable naturally. If the spindle speed wasn't low enough, I'd go to the hardware store and buy two pulleys of the correct diameter to obtain the desired spindle RPM and replace the ones that came on the drill press. If the drill press had a universal motor, I'd spring for about $10 and buy a small electronic speed controller, like the ones that I use on big routers.

This doesn't have to be difficult, if it was, hundreds of homies wouldn't be offering their product in the back of guitar magazines. Lollar said, paraphrasing and relying on memory, he wouldn't try to start a business these days because of the competition from people winding pickups in their bedroom. He's well-established now so doesn't have to be overly concerned …

Incidentally, I think that Lollar also may not real concerned with counting turns, I believe that it's product-dependant with him. I think that he also might follow the thought that, when the bobbin is full, the job is done. A web search would turn up the original article mentioned above. The main thing about production parts, if that's your bag, is consistency - accurate length measurement (or weight measurement) is as good as a counter for hand winding, where tension and "lay" of the wire is inconsistent from turn to turn. When production winders are used, with precise tensioning and lead-screw "lay" positioning, number of turns becomes critical because the process is so consistent that the turns count is the only significant variable.

Without suggesting that anyone here is making that claim, (and sorry for changing the subject) I also don't buy into the theory that there is something "special" about the wire, the potting compound, and so forth, used in old pickups. I've heard that for years, almost always from those with little materials engineering background. My belief is that it's likelier they sound different because they are naturally losing magnetism. If the pickups were re-magnetized to original specifications (a matter of a minute's work) a lot of people probably wouldn't care for the sound.

An interesting experiment would be to build a magnetizer (simple enough project), which also works as a de-magnetizer, it would be interesting to equip the thing with a timer so that various, precise amounts of magnetizing gauss could be applied and then tried in a guitar. That would be fun albeit time consuming.

Also, the conversation about "old pickups" improving generally occurs with Fender guitars, where the polepiece IS a magnet, right? Maybe the same type of discussion goes on with older style pickups too but I simply haven't heard or read it. Older blade pickups, P-90- style pickups and humbuckers that use blade magnets don't seem to experience degradation or enhancement (whichever term one prefers) over time. One might speculate that this has to do with the much smaller mass of the Fender-style pickup magnets, compared to the comparatively massive blade magnets.

Jut some thoughts - I don't have strong feelings about this stuff, one way or another. It's mostly just an interesting topic - an offshoot of my magnet-moving exercise - and perhaps a useful learning experience for those who don't have prior knowledge of the topic …

[wilbur35]

Just tried this pole piece adjustment on my Classic Player 60's strat.

It worked perfectly.. I could lower the G string pole, and raise the B string. The string balance is now much improved with the Elixer 9 gauge strings.

Wish I had found out about this year ago ! Why isn't it well known?


I couldn't move the high E or low E pole pieces. The others moved very easily, with only a light tap.

process:

* loosened the strings
* took the scratchplate off
* resting the scratchplate on a thick magazine, and the pickups on some chopsticks to support the ends while allowing the polepieces to move.
* tapped the G polepiece down. Used another chopstick to not damage the polepiece, and the butt of a small screwdriver in lieu of a hammer.

* turned the scratchplate over, and then tapped the B string polepiece so that it was raised to match the now-lowered G.

[SamBooka]

isnt well known because it can kill a pickup. If it worked for you, great.
Understand that the winding wrap around the slugs. As you move a slug it is rubbing on the winding. It wouldnt rub enough to wear the insulation off but if the windings do stuck to the slug it can stress and break the windings.

IIRC I had mentioned this before in this thread and Randy's response was along the lines of if you break the windings just unwind/rewind the pickup.

[srvstagger]

I couldn't stand the g string anymore and I noticed my middle pickup D string magnet was flush with the pickup casing where it shouldn't be. I felt I had no choice but to push it up, which I did. Then I brought the high G magnet way down. It sounded great. I have a 12" radius fingerboard, and apparently these Tex Specials mimic everything about being vintage, including the fact that they were designed around a ~7" radius, and being designed for wound g-strings instead of what people actually use today in spite of this being a 2006 model.
So I went on with the other two pups. I admit I don't know what I'm doing, probably shouldn't have but I did and it's done.
The change is profound and delightful to hear. I can hear or see no problems.
At first, I used a hair dryer (and Bic lighter) to melt the bit of wax or heat glue or whatever it is that helps hold the magnets in place, but then I tapped them delicately till I got the profile I wanted. I then brushed the gluey stuff back to the base of the magnet and heated them till the stuff liquified and hardened back in position. (possibly relevant: I worked in some 'Corrosion X' an anti-salt and humidity lubricant recommended for metal and electronics, into every corrodable nook and cranny of my guitar, including the pups... perhaps this helped prevent abrasion as the magnet moved.)
QQQQ: What happens when the bottom end of these magnets drops down out of the vicinity of the wiring, having been pushed lower? All I know is that I seem to have vastly improved the sound.

[randyc]

I haven't looked at this site in a year or two but this post appeared in my e-mail today and prompted the following comment:

srvstagger, that was a thoughtful, ingenious idea - using the hairdryer to loosen the magnet adhesive. I will remember this if I need to make similar adjustments in the future.

Nice work,
randyc

I couldn't stand the g string anymore and I noticed my middle pickup D string magnet was flush with the pickup casing where it shouldn't be. I felt I had no choice but to push it up, which I did. Then I brought the high G magnet way down. It sounded great. I have a 12" radius fingerboard, and apparently these Tex Specials mimic everything about being vintage, including the fact that they were designed around a ~7" radius, and being designed for wound g-strings instead of what people actually use today in spite of this being a 2006 model.
So I went on with the other two pups. I admit I don't know what I'm doing, probably shouldn't have but I did and it's done.
The change is profound and delightful to hear. I can hear or see no problems.
At first, I used a hair dryer (and Bic lighter) to melt the bit of wax or heat glue or whatever it is that helps hold the magnets in place, but then I tapped them delicately till I got the profile I wanted. I then brushed the gluey stuff back to the base of the magnet and heated them till the stuff liquified and hardened back in position. (possibly relevant: I worked in some 'Corrosion X' an anti-salt and humidity lubricant recommended for metal and electronics, into every corrodable nook and cranny of my guitar, including the pups... perhaps this helped prevent abrasion as the magnet moved.)
QQQQ: What happens when the bottom end of these magnets drops down out of the vicinity of the wiring, having been pushed lower? All I know is that I seem to have vastly improved the sound.

[Jimmy Mack]

I personally hate the inconsistencies between string volumes on Strats. But, I love their tone and playability.

I have been lucky in adjusting pole pieces in several. Very carefully! I have enjoyed the results. Didn't know of the risks until tonite. I did read somewhere that this procedure is OK. I always find the 1st string too quiet, and the 2nd string too loud.