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I'm trying to choose between the Epiphone Joe Pass and the Ibanez Artcore AS73 and would love some second opinions. Basically, I've found the Epiphone a bit more comfortable to the hands and a better sound for jazz. However, the Ibanez feels more comfortable overall (I like the solid, heavier feel) and has a more flexible sound (good for Jazz, blues and rock). While I'm still an early player, I like the flexibility as I'd like to grow and explore more genres. But should I just worry about that later, forget the weight and focus on the Epiphone.
Any opinions?
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01-21-2010 11:06 AM
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You will hear a variety of opinions here, so do your research and decide what you want for yourself.
IMO, the Epi Joe Pass is a fine guitar for the money. Mine is older, made by Samick in Korea, beautiful looking, very good fit and finish. It has a very nice warm jazz sound, particularly with flatwound strings. What I like best is the neck and action and playability. It comes with stock Epi humbuckers; I have not found the need to change pickups, but many have added Gibson 57-type HB's with good results. I play mostly jazzy stuff, but with the bridge p/u you can get a bright jangly tone for rockabilly or rock. As with any hollowbody, feedback could be an issue, but not a problem for me. For the money, IMO, you can't beat it--can get used on Ebay or the like for ~$4-500.
The Artcore AS73 is, I believe, a semi-hollow, 335-type guitar. This would be OK for rock or blues, but you might be challenged for jazz. I haven't played this one but tried out some of the Artcore jazz boxes. They look nice and have a lot of fans, but I didn't like them as much as the Epi JP. The better sounding ones (e.g., AF105) are quite a bit more expensive than the AS73. If you want a semi-hollow I would suggest checking out the Epiphone Dot or Sheraton 2.
I imagine you will hear quite a few people advising you to save up your money and spend one or a couple of thousand for a good Gibson or such, and I can't argue with that if that suits your needs. If you're just starting out or a hacker like me you may find that the Epi JP fits the bill. Be sure to get it set up properly, including the action to your preference, and put on good strings.Last edited by Doctor Jeff; 01-21-2010 at 11:41 AM.
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Thank you, Doctor Jeff. Good points on the Epi. This was is only two years old so I have a slight concern as I can't tell where it was made (any markings I can look for to see if it was Korea?).
Although I like the feel of the Ibanez I realize that if I'm learning Jazz, go with the Jazz box and then get something like the Dot when I'm ready to dive into blues.
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If you can, take a look at the Godin 5th Ave, 5th Ave. Kingpin
and KingpinII.
They're not as pretty, they're a little more expensive and
the neck may not suit you. Not a heck of an endorsement, eh?
I think they're better guitars and they're made by folks who,
for better or worse, elect their own despots, er, leaders.
I've a simple 5th Ave. and I look forward to fitting it with a
pickup but it plays well and sounds good and you can feel it
vibrating wonderfully. I've owned two Korean Epi's and
they both had terrific necks. Good luck.
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I agree the Godin Kingpin is a nice looking guitar for not too much money. It is, I believe, made in Canada. The top is laminated. List is $519 for the acoustic, $699 for the model with P90 p/u.
I also recently tried the Gretsch G100 archtop, which also has a laminated top and is made in Korea. I liked the way it played a little better than the Godin, but that was just my first impression. It retails for $699 acoustic or $749 A/E.
Either of these would be great for a traditional, woody jazz or acoustic blues tone, but you're not going to be imitating Jimi Hendrix or BB King with these.
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Just to add an alternative viewpoint: There is no reason why you can't play jazz perfectly well on the AS73 - several jazz greats have used solidbody or semi-hollow guitars. And if you like the feel, that does have to count for something IMO. You would, I expect, get more of that woody, acoustic-ness coming through in the amplified sound of the Joe Pass, but a semi would still give a bit of that quality. Different, rather than worse, for jazz perhaps. And if you want to venture into the jazz-fusion kind of area, then I would think the Ibanez will work better in this context - as you say, it's more versatile. At the end of the day, no guitar will do everything perfectly - but I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here - some food for thought at least! Have fun deciding.
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I'm quite happyto chip in here as I have both guitars!!
My JP is an older Samick-made version; it was my first Jazz box and I have changed pickups (Gibsons) and electronics. It sounds fine, especially with TI flatwounds 12's on it.
My AS73 has TI Be-Bops 11's on there. It's more versatile if you want to do other things like blues and rock'n'roll, and it plays well, but it doesn't quite have the depth for that jazz timbre.
I have them for doing different things and I'm lucky enough to be able to have both of these in addition to my main guitar.
The ONE advantage of the day gig, I guess.
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Can I ask you a bit about your AS73 mangotango? I have been contemplating a semi for a while now...
Originally Posted by mangotango
But what in your opinion are the downsides, if any, of the AS73 compared to more expensive semi acoustics? I'm thinking of both sound quality and playability here. Also, have you had any set-up or pickup replacements done to it? Cheers!
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and they can often be found for less. Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
admittedly, i'm biased as a kingpin owner (and former epiphone owner) but i cannot stress how much better the godin is made than the chinese stuff in the same price bracket. I paid $550 for my single pickup model, and i honestly feel you'd need to go above a grand to find an instrument that compares/is better.
it's a very old school sound though--a lot more jimmy raney than john scofield.
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I have to chime in for the AS73. While it is not the standard jazz box, it is a very nice guitar for the money. Considering that it is basically an ES335 clone, I compared it to a Gibson when I was doing my search. The Gibson sounded a little better, but not $2700 better. Besides, I'm just getting started. Also I noticed that while it sounds pretty good when I attempt to play, it sounds more like the Gibson when my teacher played it. From what I've found out its in the hands, amp, strings, pickups. Can we ever totally repicate the sound of the Masters? All in all its a good starting point. Mine is completely stock except for the strings.
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I've a AS83 (very similar to 73). I bought it for practicing in jazz and because I always loved semihollows. In my opinion the guitar has good playability, a great neck, but nothing to do with a real 335 o a real jazz box. I tried with .010 D'Addario, 0.012 Thomastik Bebop, but I practiced only small improvements to its 'closed' and too woody tone. Then I passed to the ES 175, but the issue is still open since I did not sell my Ibanez. Could it be worth to buy a couple of 57 Classic and try to upgrade it?
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Hi guys just thought I would add little to the debate,being an owner of the ibanez ags83b very simlar to A73.The A83 and A73 have the same neck pickup and I don't find it ideal for that "Jazz" tone,even winding the tone on the guitar right off the treble still cuts through.Then when you have tweaked the amp the base side is so muddy you could get stuck in it (imo).
So if you want to play jazz with that "Jazz" then buy a jazz guitar thats what I did problem solved,I just have to learn how to play it now, ha ha.Hope this helps .
Cheers Tom
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im having this same debate!
I'm going for the epiphone, but its only because i have a decent (well less than decent, but ive fixed it up a bit) solid body to back up my rock and fusion playing. I'd say the ephiphone is not really suited for that kind of thing, but its a great jazz guitar for its price!
So in short i would say its up to the direction you want to take your playing, and also what other guitars you have.
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Great advice, everyone. Thank you. I think if I'm learning jazz I should do it on a real jazz box - the Epiphone Joe Pass. But I'm thinking of keeping the Ibanez Artcore AS73. I'm still very early in the learning curve but I enjoy playing it and maybe I'll pick up on some blues rock so I can appreciate it a little more.
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That sounds like a sensible plan ecohen. If you are really into that classic archtop jazz guitar sound, then you should find the Joe Pass helps to keep you more inspired. But I agree about keeping the AS73 if possible, it will certainly cover some other areas, plus is a nice guitar in its own right. And you never know when a blues/rock/fusion gig might come along, which the Epi would not really be right for. Be versatile!
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I am in exactly the same boat here. I too own an AS83 that I am thinking of upgrading. I too own an ES 175. I'm very interested in results people have from doing this, and their thoughts on the sound. I'm considering Seymour Duncan Alnico II Pros into the thing for about $150 installed Originally Posted by pineapple
. Sort of a big investment for a guitar that cost me $350, but it's about the sound. It plays like a dream.
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I own the Joe Pass. It's a great guitar. A couple of things that you might want to look at with it that I have found troublesome. First, the input jack comes loose often and tightening it isn't easy. Second, I took my pick guard off due to a very slight rattle when playing it acoustic. Lastly, I disagree with the pickups, they need to be changed out. The sound will get a huge improvement if you make this simple upgrade.
All that said, I do really like the guitar. If I had to choose again on what to spend the money on, I would buy it again. The look and the overall quality is good (the things I listed are minor issues). The action is good, it keeps it's tuning exceptionally well, and it gets great praise for looks from everyone I've played it around.
Just my opinion. ~DB
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This is just offered as a personal opinion, nothing more, but have a look at Tonerider pickups: Tonerider - Welcome Originally Posted by Flat3rd
I am in exactly the same boat here. I too own an AS83 that I am thinking of upgrading. I too own an ES 175. I'm very interested in results people have from doing this, and their thoughts on the sound. I'm considering Seymour Duncan Alnico II Pros into the thing for about $150 installed. Sort of a big investment for a guitar that cost me $350, but it's about the sound. It plays like a dream.
I fitted an alnico 4 PAF type into the neck position of one of my guitars (an Ibanez as it happens) and was most impressed with the results. They seem way cheaper than a lot of the options, but still well made (in China I think), with scatterwound and potted coils. Only a thought though, you may prefer other options.
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02-10-2010, 12:11 AM #19zz5555 Guest
How do the necks compare? I prefer a thinner neck, like the one on the AS73 (I like how Ibanez lists their neck profiles on their website - I wish more makers did that). I'd really like to know how thick the Joe Pass (or Dot or Sheraton) neck is as I don't really trust my opinion with a 15 minute test in the store. I have a Les Paul that seemed fine at first, but that I've come to loathe due to it's thick neck. Now I have to sell it (and buy other guitars with the proceeds
. I liked the AS73 when I tried it out, but I prefer a natural finish so lean towards the Epis.
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Bwah? I thought the Kingpin retails for around $900 CDN? I'll look again next time in the store, but I could have sworn that was it...
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The prices quoted for the Godins is about spot on. The new cutaway Kingpin is about $999 retail.
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In a death match, the AS73 would smash the Joe Pass into little plywood pieces.
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That is what they show up for around here (Montreal PQ) but that is with a case. Originally Posted by Space Pickle
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I have a Korean EPI Joe Pass and its neck feels very similar to the 1969 LP Custom-"Fretless Wonder" that I had since new but sold a couple of years ago. Smallish frets, which I prefer, flat radius, and easy to play with my small fingers and periodic arthritis. The switch and pots suck but a shot of contact cleaner into the switch from the top clears it up for a couple of days. Pickups suck but are easily replaced--take your pick of replacements. Originally Posted by zz5555
How do the necks compare? I prefer a thinner neck, like the one on the AS73 (I like how Ibanez lists their neck profiles on their website - I wish more makers did that). I'd really like to know how thick the Joe Pass (or Dot or Sheraton) neck is as I don't really trust my opinion with a 15 minute test in the store. I have a Les Paul that seemed fine at first, but that I've come to loathe due to it's thick neck. Now I have to sell it (and buy other guitars with the proceeds. I liked the AS73 when I tried it out, but I prefer a natural finish so lean towards the Epis.
I was blown away by an AS 73 my favourite pawn shop had in last year. The shop owner had replaced the stock pickups with some sort of hot Duncan in the bridge and an even hotter one in the neck and it killed for hard rock and blues tone. It would certainly be a compliment to a cheap hollowbody like the Joe Pass and fun to mod as well.
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It depends on how your playing. The Epi feels thicker but a shorter neck makes it much more comfortable to hold and easier to hold classical style. The Ibanez neck is longer and makes my hand really stretch. So not as comfortable. But if I'm holding the guitar rock style, it's more comfortable than the Epi. Overall, the Epi is easier on the hands (for me). Originally Posted by zz5555
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