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I just ran across an ad for Kenny Burrells 1992 Gibson Super 400. (not any of his vintage ones from the 50-60's or what have you)
The price is $22,000.00
It is said to have been made to Kenny's specs.
$22,000.00.
Wow.
If you're intersted it'sa t somplace called Westwood Music in the 310 area code.
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01-18-2010 04:52 PM
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Wow is right !!! That link that Kawa posted a couple of days ago has about a half-dozen Super 400s, ranging all the way back to the nineteen-thirties. Prices start around $7,000 U.S. and go up ... but $22,000, for a '92 model, whew! For that kind of money, I'd be wanting Kenny along with the guitar, to show me how to play it
Having said that, I wonder about those that buy mass-produced, bolt-together, solid-body instruments for that kind of money, now THAT'S weird.
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I remember when one of the big dealers had Kenny Burrell's D'angelico New Yorker cutaway. It was either a 53 or 54 and the price tag said $75,000 clams. I guess they have to figure in the star factor.
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I guess that's right, didn't Wes' L-5 go for $40k?
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Mr. Burrell's association with it makes it that valuable.
People with real money certainly won't flinch at this.
When Mr. Burrell is gone this will materially stand in his place.
Let's wait & see which Russian oil oligarch, Chinese entrepreneur,
Brazilian petrol exec or Indian tech mogul buys this with a smile.
We love you Kenny!
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Maybe John Mayer?
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LOL !! In that vein, I believe that I saw Boz Skaggs playing a Super 400 a while back, in a video.
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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You know... you could ask Kenny about it... The guitar is listed on GBASE, with photos and all. Doesn't look like there is a scratch on it. I mean it, not a scratch. They say Kenny brought it into the store and it comes with a note and all. But gheesh... not a scratch? Damn. I don't own an axe that's that clean. Makes you wonder.
Last edited by Flat3rd; 01-18-2010 at 11:49 PM.
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John Mayer has a Dumble. The Super 400 would sound unbelievable through that Originally Posted by randyc
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Only if I was interested in buying it.... Originally Posted by Flat3rd
Don't get me wrong. I aint dissin anybody. I love Kenny too.
It's just that well for one thing a D'Angelico is worth $75. Bill Bay had a D'Aquisto at Gruhns for $75K.
I remember back in 1990 talking to Vic Juris about his custom Benedetto that was on sale at Mando Brothers for 8K. He even though that was a bit much. (A few years later I think I saw it again for $17)
It's just that for $22000 I could get one of those Chet Atkins Super 400's that had a limited run of 20 or so. I could buy a Citation. I could buy 2 Kalamazoo Eagles....And I would play them.
We're still talkng about a 1992 black Super 400.
But as to who will buy it? I would guess a Japanese Collector. There are quite a few
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It's like tulip fever, or any coveting. When I was saving my pennies to buy my first 'real' jazz guitar' a friend who worked at a music store had a Johnny Smith on consignment. I played it side by side with a well-played ES-175 at 1/4 the price. I bought the latter, and play it daily. No regrets!
I also babysat a Les Paul goldtop and kept it collectible for 2 decades. While I was pleased to see it support its owner and his family, I have an Epi copy that plays and sounds better, imo. But that old Paul is worth 15K. There's a lesson here somewhere. Or maybe not?
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Yes, there're lessons to be learned, unhappily we don't usually learn them until we're ancient, shedding tears into our beers over the "ones that got away"
I think that there are two MAJOR decision paths, based on one's disposable income, primarily. If one can purchase a guitar of predictable historical appreciation, without undue stress on the family budget, then why not? Knowing that the initial investment can be retrieved (+ profit) allows rent-free appreciation of fine equipment.
If one cannot easily spring for a Super 400 (or whatever), then other options need to be exercised and the outlook has to be structured so that there is no expectation of investment appreciation. The normal reasoning is that, if the instrument is playable and sounds good, all requirements have been achieved.
After having learned "my" lessons (the only way that they can be learned), I formed the personal opinion that I NEED a guitar that I can afford and I defined "afford" as the cost that may require some tightening of the belt. I've never wanted expensive automobiles, for example, I prefer reliability and economy as selection criteria. So that's an obvious cost-benefit compromise for me, LOL.
Nerdy folks (like me) almost instinctively perform cost-benefit analyses about decisions that are required while bumbling along through life. Long ago, spotting appreciation trends, I settled on a few guitar brands that satisfied my personal playing needs and my desire for investment recovery. So I bought guitars based on the needs of what I was performing at the time of purchase. And I DIDN'T sell them.
It wasn't always like that - my early, fickle tastes caused me to sell guitar "A" (at a loss, naturally) to purchase guitar "B" (marked-up, naturally). And those regretful decisions are still haunting, LOL ! If I wanted to sell my '61 Les Paul to buy a '66 Mosrite .... well, that's a good example of irrational thinking and poor decision-making. Too bad that it really happened, rather than being just an example
So finally, around 1985 or so, I had enough guitars to be able to play any gig likely and any musical genre within my personal capability. Any acquisitions past that point were for "art", one might say. Or for more serendipitous reasons, like the one that impulsively made me buy the pair of Heritage guitars a couple of months ago.
See, I thought that there may have been a temporary financial shortage of cash that prevented some forum members from taking advantage of the bargains that show up from time to time. I bought the two guitars for what I considered to be bargain prices (supported by the opinions of many forum members who thought the same).
I intended to pass along the guitars to anyone interested (for reimbursement and shipping costs - no "middleman" profit). Unfortunately, few were interested in the Heritages and that worked out pretty well for me. I was able to play, for weeks, a very sweet Golden Eagle (number 252 of the first 1000 made) and develope a good cost-benefit opinion of the instrument. That was a fine instrument and it enabled me to repay a long-time debt to my Uncle, the guy who got me into this guitar stuff, by sending the Eagle to him.
The little 575, well I kept that one, it's so pretty and sounds so nice accoustically that it stays close to me. Some have read my reviews of both guitars and the 575 struck me as great value for cost! I'd never owned a Heritage before and was pleased to get the opportunity to offer a completely unbiassed opinion of the two that I purchased.
Occasionally I've purchased inexpensive guitars (Gibson SG, Carvin DC-150, Fender Strat, Gibson ES-135) for specific purposes, as in "bar guitar". If there was a possibility of damage to one of my older or "better" instruments, I wanted to let the cheaper one "take the bullet". After a while, I realized that this wasn't really necessary - incidental damage to expensive guitars doesn't detract a lot from collector/resale value. If I sell my old strat for $5,700 or $8,900, it wouldn't make much difference to me since I bought the guitar for $315 (or thereabout).
A long, twisting tale that documents briefly a lifetime of acquiring, divesting and re-acquiring nice guitars. I still don't own a Byrdland or a Super 400 - that will probably change when the right one becomes available. After all, I have absolutely nothing to lose -
Some may recall the short survey conducted a few months back regarding re-sale value of guitars. I wanted to mention (based on limited data) that the best time to acquire a classic, "name" instrument is about two years after model introduction ...
cheers,
randyc
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As others have said... a collector's piece, not a player's axe. Presumably he played the guitar or recorded with it somewhere, and that's what the note is about. Originally Posted by JohnW400
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Randy, you have described the afficianado's philosophy in a nutshell.
I have the same impulse and over the years have collected comic books, record albums and antique handtools with the same fervor you reserve for guitars.
It is worth mentioning some trends that have occurred in the world of guitar collecting that affect price, namely the near-fetishization of "classic instruments", the entry of well-healed collectors--especially foreigners--into the market, and the internet, e.g., Ebay and other auction and consignment sites.
The bottom line: you have to get up early and do your research to find a real bargain these days. And you have to be able to distinguish the true worth of an instrument from the price inflated by investors, fickle collectors and speculators.
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I don't know if this has been mentioned: but if Kenny is the one who's selling this guitar, then more power to him -- I hope he gets a good price. You don't seen many jazz musicians with private jets! He's made his name and he should be able to profit from it. He's earned it.
But if it's just some speculator, meh...
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Originally Posted by randyc
Randy, where's that link or what's it under? I'd like to have a look at it (as a proud owner of a 7/2000 S400 in sunburst)
Thanks
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Here's the link that Kawa posted: ??????????????????????
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I had not thought of that - I hope you're right. And I also respect the value of collecting tangible assets, especially in down economies. But it does bug me sometimes thinking about all the talented young guitarists who could make beautiful music with instruments that will end up in a humidor or hanging on someone's wall. And I'm too 'pragmatic' (=cheap) to pay that kind of price for something I'm just going to sweat all over every day. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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Unhappily, all of those talented young artists - virtually to a man - prefer Chinese instruments. (They are in the second category of those mentioned in my previous post.) Many of them "claim" that if they were given a high-value American guitar, that they would immediately sell it and buy a half-dozen Chinese instruments. I have my doubts about that but that's what the youngsters say
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I can remember when Fender starting making strat's in Japan and everybody thought that it was like 'sacrelige'. Originally Posted by randyc
Unhappily, all of those talented young artists - virtually to a man - prefer Chinese instruments. (They are in the second category of those mentioned in my previous post.) Many of them "claim" that if they were given a high-value American guitar, that they would immediately sell it and buy a half-dozen Chinese instruments. I have my doubts about that but that's what the youngsters say
Then as the yen started to get closer to the dollar and the price of those Japanese guitars started to go up, production shifted to other countries in order to keep the price down.
Same with cars. I think. Years ago (like the 60's). You wouldn't use the terms luxury car and Japan in the same sentence. Then came Korea. Now we're looking at China and even India.
Times change. Look at the Vestax D'Angelico. Now that production moved to Korea (or China) the cost has gone down and people are looking for those Japanesse D'As and paying for them.
Most of these makers use the same materials. The difference is the labor costs. Japan has a higher paid work force than any of the other countries in that part of the world. Look at us. We have higher labor costs than most of the countries in our neck of the woods.
That's where the price difference is. Then of course there's the 'cool factor' like playing a Super 400 with a sharp cutaway like Elvis played in his 1968 special.
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That's especially true when you start looking at solid body guitars made on CNC machines and PLEKed. A CNC machine in Mexico, the US or China works the same way.
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I'd bet it's not Kenny selling it.
Hilaire-Germain-Edgar de Gas (known to art history as Edgar Degas) summed it all up pretty well, when, near the end of his life, he saw one of his paintings set an auction-house record for its high sale price:
"Now I know how the horse feels when they give the roses to the jockey."
I just experienced my own form of star power: yesterday I sold my 1970 Gibson Les Paul Deluxe gold top. Good examples go for $1800-up. However, due to the association of this particular guitar with me, it went for $1200.
I'll add, it went to a friend, as I had bought it from a friend in 1997 for $750!
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LOL !!! Well, if you're feeling lonely, I'll send you the Emp/Rej
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Originally Posted by randyc
I'm not THAT lonely!
It's true, however, that I am toying with the single digits in number of instruments owned.
With the Samick gone, and one of the mini-herd of Precisions sold (both have been promised but are as yet unconsummated), I'll be down to nine -- I haven't been in that territory for years! I'll also trade the Dobro, but that's a zero-sum transaction: lose one, gain one.
Fortunately, I have found a new outlet: amplifiers. The money I received for Lester is going to buy a Mesa-Boogie bass amp, and then I'll ponder which way to expand the guitar amps (why do I seem to need several guitar amps [four, currently], while I've never had more than two bass amps, and that only as a convenience so I could leave one in the practice room? Yet another one of life's imponderable, persistent questions) -- likely a Fender Deluxe Reverb RI, or, should I find one, a Fender Jazz-King, or even the heavyweight, a Fender Twin Reverb Custom 15.
And then it's off to the races, expanding beyond Fenderhood....
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Just so you'd know, here is a shot of the current bass rig of stately countenance:
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