Poll - Solid State vs Tube Amps for Jazz Guitar

[Bobby Timmons]

I'm happy with solid state because no maintenance. This is the amp I replaced in my Leslie. 5 wat solid state amp makes it nice and rich. Then I just eq the heck out of it with my 31 band eq.

[GuyBoden]

My ultimate preference would be a tube amp for single line solo playing and solid state amp for chordal playing.

You'd get the full complex dimensional sound of tubes for your single lines and the clean clarity of the solid state for you chordal work (no mushyness).

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I'm happy with solid state because no maintenance. This is the amp I replaced in my Leslie. 5 wat solid state amp makes it nice and rich. Then I just eq the heck out of it with my 31 band eq.

The real deal is a hybrid. We have a 3300 Leslie cab with our XK5 Pro at the club in which I play twice a week. It uses a 12AX7 based preamp driving a 300WRMS SS power section, and it’s truly amazing. In addition to the Hammond, I often play my guitar through it with the rotors slowed or stopped, when I need a lush sonic texture. The bottom is as tight as a lover’s hug, even through its 15” woofer. Changing tubes is a small price to pay for the authentic sound of an overdriven B3. And it makes a great jazz guitar amp with bass all the way down.

[Oscar67]

Sonically, convenience and cost aside, tubes tubes tubes. For sure. And this coming from a guy who actually really likes his JC22. But with any A/B with a tube amp, the tube amp comes out on top. All the more so since I got my Brunetti SingleMan. That amp is magic.

[Bobby Timmons]

I bet that sounds really luxurious to play guitar through the Leslie 3300. And you play on the XK-5 too? My Leslie studio 12 is also hybrid but I use the little 5 watt amp to scale it down.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I bet that sounds really luxurious to play guitar through the Leslie 3300. And you play on the XK-5 too?

I've been playing keys for 70 years. The guitar is my true and lasting love, but I started on it when I was 9 and had already been playing piano for a few years. Here I am on B-3 with Larry Garner at the Hudson River Park Blues Festival in NYC a few years ago:



Here I am on B-3 at the Wilmington (DE) Blues and Brews Festival:



And here's a shot of the stage at the club in which I play twice a week - it's actually the background for the landing page of my music website. The Nord and Hammond are front stage right, with the Leslie against the wall to the drummer's right and the player sandwiched between them. When I'm backing a featured artist on keys and guitar, I sit at the keys with my guitar on a stand next to me and switch off as needed:

[Bobby Timmons]

Awesome

[Bobby Timmons]

I've been playing keys for 70 years.

No wonder you sound good. So you grew up in the golden age?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

No wonder you sound good. So you grew up in the golden age?

Thanks! I’ve been very fortunate to have been born at a great time and place to have the interests I have. My parents loved music, so there was a 6’ Knabe grand in the living room along with a decent hifi system and hundreds of records. My mother and most of my aunts graduated from college and my father had a graduate degree. So I got the stimulation I needed to pursue my passions. I had musical friends and was in my first band at 12. I bought cars for $25 to take apart, fix up, and flip for $. I grew up in a fertile field for my mind and my imagination, and I’ve always tried to grow both.

When I was 12, I also had Downbeat, a good local record shop, a radio, a good music store with some decent used guitars & amps, a library card, and an emerging world of jazz. But I don’t think there’s a “golden age”. Had I been born into the same circumstances in 1920, the specifics would have been different but the principles would have been the same. It would have been Eddie Lang instead of Wes. My first guitar would have cost $3 instead of $10. And I’d have waited for Benny Goodman to come to Steel Pier instead of Stan Kenton.

And if I were born in 2000, I’d have had the internet and e-books to help me learn and experience in a month what took years to get when I was a kid. I’d have had free instant access to a world of music, art, knowledge, culture etc 24/7 that we could only access in dribbles from books, magazines, TV, movies, school, etc.

It’s always a golden age if you have the love, the curiosity, the desire, and the fire inside to find and use existing resources well. Thankfully, I was helped along by a family that understood and generally encouraged my interests and abilities. I think it would have been the same had I been born at any time. But I’m very happy with my little window of life!

[rpjazzguitar]

Funny you mention Wes; he brought his custom Standel solid state amp everywhere….. (only played a Bassman briefly early in his career)

Like here in London in 1965, the Standel can clearly be seen behind him:

I've read that Wes used tube amps made by Standel, which did exist.

But, this video seems to show a Super Custom XV, which is a solid state amp.

[pdfiddler]

Just finished playing through my Cyber Twin SE on the '55 Tweed Tremolux with a little reverb and was a real nice sound and I'm a tube Amp guy.

[Rob from Auburn]

I recently built a roadworthy little all-tube amp/DI that sounds like a vintage combo (without the hum). It's about the size of a box of Turtles.

[JazzIsGood]

They say Wes switched from tube to SS in 1965. I have heard him use both. Pre 65 he used all the usual Fender tube stuff (deluxe, twin, super reverb). That's according to this website I read sometimes that goes over all this gear-
Wes Montgomery Guitars & Gear List (with Videos) - Guitar Lobby

I read on that site that another guy with great tone switched over to SS also- BB King. With Wes and BB King, I would think tone is in the fingers more than in the amp. I assume since they were playing such big rooms and PA technology was not good back then, they were more on the practical side and wanted as much volume as they can get without feedback or distortion. SS is good for that.

There's a lot of variables- fingers, amp, guitar, PA technology, and recording technology on the records. I really like "Smoking at the Half Note." Not sure what's the amp on that one, but it's a great sound the way it's recorded and mixed with the band. "So Much Guitar" also has a good guitar sound. These old records sometimes have great playing and lousy sound. I used to listen to Albert King when I was getting into blues and almost all his records sound awful.

Funny you mention Wes; he brought his custom Standel solid state amp everywhere….. (only played a Bassman briefly early in his career)

Like here in London in 1965, the Standel can clearly be seen behind him:

[EastwoodMike]

I recently built a roadworthy little all-tube amp/DI that sounds like a vintage combo (without the hum). It's about the size of a box of Turtles.

looks cool- but I am curious as why you are putting poor turtles in a box???

[Gitterbug]

I recently built a roadworthy little all-tube amp/DI that sounds like a vintage combo (without the hum). It's about the size of a box of Turtles.

Now that looks fantastic! Is it a one-off? Specs, please!

[oldane]

Funny you mention Wes; he brought his custom Standel solid state amp everywhere….. (only played a Bassman briefly early in his career)

Like here in London in 1965, the Standel can clearly be seen behind him:

There's a problem bringing an amp from US to Europe and that's the voltage. Back in Wes' days we used 230-240V in Europe whereas the the voltage in US was about the half of that (stills is). So likely Wes used a Standel amp sourced from somewhere in Europe (already fitted for European voltage) or he had the power supply of his own amp modified for the tour. Most American guitarists rely on amps delived by the venues or the concert arrangers when playing in Europe. Back in the 1990s I bought an Evans amp directly from the maker in the US and had to specify that it should have its power supply set up for European voltage.

[Christian Miller]

If I have to choose between headroom and ‘warmth’ I would choose the former. Nice to have both, but not always available.

[Christian Miller]

looks cool- but I am curious as why you are putting poor turtles in a box???

i was wondering why those meat pies were so tough.

[coyote-1]

For me it’s both, depending on context. For rock? I’ve played thru Marshall Majors (still have one) with those monstrous KT88 tubes, as well as other Marshall and Fender tube amps.

I also played Hammond for awhile in a classic/prog rock context, an old A100 tonewheel thing. Used a MotionSound Pro3T, the bass rotor sim going thru that Marshall Major into a 4x12 for some years. (I still have the organ and Pro3T also.) For certain things there just isn’t an adequate replacement for tubes. And it’s not just the preamp! Tube power amps can provide both enormous clean headroom AND a hint of ‘sizzle’ (for lack of a better word) simultaneously.

But getting back to jazz guitar, clean input and clean power amp headroom are my ideal. I want it to sound like the guitar, amplified… with some of the top end rolled off to accommodate the needs of the combo. A tiny hint of reverb is nice sometimes, but not needed in most instances. Additionally, equipment weight has recently become an issue for me. So SS fills the bill.

[DawgBone]

If I have to choose between headroom and ‘warmth’ I would choose the former. Nice to have both, but not always available.

Twin Reverb on any volume setting above 4.

[Litterick]

Princeton Reverb II.

[coyote-1]

Princeton Reverb II.

I have one of these. Don’t like it for jazz really, though it’s not bad, and it does not like most pedals. But it kills on its own in a rock context, especially piped thru a 2x12 extension cabinet.

[Brooks]

I've heard better sounds from tube amps, but not by a wide enough margin to lug the extra weight.

THIS. If I just played/recorded at home, I'd get another Deluxe or Carr. But I've had several tube amps go down on gigs, and I have a bad back, so its SS for me. At this point I am just doing solo bar & patio gigs, and I am happy with the tones from my Ibby George Benson run thru a comp pedal into a SS amp (depending on the gig it could be my BluGuitar Amp1, or TC Bam200, or Line6 combo, or a small PA mixer if I'm doing some vocals). YMMV

[garybaldy]

I have a Fender 100w 2x12 Twin amp, a Marshall 50w 2x12 jcm800 4104 and a Musicman 65w 1x12 65RP(SS pre amp) and none of them seem to do the jazz thing for me.
I stick with my Polytone 1x15 MB3.

[Woodstove]

The real deal is a hybrid. We have a 3300 Leslie cab with our XK5 Pro at the club in which I play twice a week. It uses a 12AX7 based preamp driving a 300WRMS SS power section, and it’s truly amazing. In addition to the Hammond, I often play my guitar through it with the rotors slowed or stopped, when I need a lush sonic texture. The bottom is as tight as a lover’s hug, even through its 15” woofer. Changing tubes is a small price to pay for the authentic sound of an overdriven B3. And it makes a great jazz guitar amp with bass all the way down.

Another hybrid rig I just started playing with is a tube preamp into a SS. I love the dumble sound got a Peace Hill Fx Steel String Singer "pedal" made in Japan. It does a great job giving the entire preamp of the dumble which has a really extensive eq chain When I run that into a Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb it sounds great.