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Feeling pretty down about my NGD and need 2nd opinions. Apologies for the long read
found a somewhat rare (factory built) guitar at what I believed was a reputable shop.
Called and specifically asked about condition - shop said it’s great, but “you can’t expect used guitars to be perfect”. Shop was generally dis-interested in answering questions about playability “don’t know, haven’t played it”,etc. Refused to restring/set it up before it went out without charging me $100 for setup
guitar sells for $3460 new (shipped)
There are only 2 of these on the used market
One Natural finish with very nice wood for $2836 (shipped) from the owner of the shop who makes these - the best set up guitar I have ever owned came from here. Owner is meticulous about setups
Or the sunburst one (my preference) from this shop -
Originally they were asking $2650 shipped, i ended up getting it for $2300 shipped
here is where the problem starts
Guitar shows up and there are 4 large dings through the finish on the top and 2 others that have been sloppily drop filled with black lacquer in the brown portion of the sunburst. Another scratch that goes through the finish on the side as well.
The biggest issue is the bridge - the hand carved ebony bridge is missing and has been replaced with a $20 rosewood Allparts replacement. There are basically no slots filed for the strings, the bridge base is not fitted to the top, at all, and there is no room to lower the action because the bridge top is sitting on the thumb wheels. Bridge is also touching the pickguard due to the fat base of the Allparts bridge.
guitar sounds amazing, playability is rough. 12th fret action is ~4mm. I got a quote for a replacement bridge from the company who builds these and it will be $276
Shops return policy deducts shipping, so I would lose $300
how would you proceed?
I am going to call the shop this morning and ask if there was a mixup and maybe they do have my bridge (unlikely)
Did I get a decent deal, and should I just eat the cost of new bridge, bridge fitting, setup, and finish repair?
Is there anything I can do to get the shop to not take shipping cost - I payed with Credit Card?
many thanks in advance - this has been keeping me awake all night so far
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02-08-2020 07:35 AM
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Photos added
just measured action its about 2.7mm at the 12th fret not quite as bad as I had initially thought
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the shop was Rumble Seat Music btw
Ive also added photos of the bridge that show that it is bottomed out, and the thumbwheels are completely loose and rattle every time a low note is hit
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Sorry to hear you had to deal with a less than forthright seller. If you're not happy, send it back and file the experience under "lessons learned".
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The guitar sounds great and i have been looking for one for ages but they were always a bit out of reach price wise - Guitar is an Archtop Tribute AT150CC (ES-150 Charlie Christian clone) I expect that the natural finish will be in better condition, and I have reached out to Masaki at Walkin about getting photos of the used one that he has for sale
he agreed that the bridge on this one has been changed to a poor quality one (in comparison to his hand carved ebony bridges that he makes for these) the replacement bridge would be ~$275 and wouldn't be ready until March/April.
As much as I like the sunburst I think I am going to try and return this to the shop and get them to waive shipping - it is not as described, and the bridge is completely non-functional. It seems like I could get a "mint condition" one from Walkin for less than the price of this one + bridge + setup + finish work
I really hope that the shop is nice about return shipping and does not make me pay the $300 as the item is not is "excellent condition" as I was told (Guitar was also listed on Reverb in excellent condition, unfortunately i bought over the phone)
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If you feel like you would have to have the finish defects repaired along with a new bridge from the maker, I would say that it's not a good deal. Those things can add up quickly. In my mind it would be better to negotiate on the other used one available. OTOH if it sounds terrific and you can live with the cosmetic defects, it would be easy enough to get either that bridge or another functioning correctly, save your money. It's a tool really and no 2 sound the same. It's really personal. Good luck.
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I like to keep my gear pretty pristine and would want the original bridge- and this stings a bit more than normal because I liquidated all of my other electrics to get this one.
i am within my 24 hour approval period, so I know i can send it back - I just want to avoid paying the shipping for something that was not as described
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Hey tfling -- sorry to hear about the less-than-perfect delivery -- that's no fun!
[I'm not sure why you're purposely leaving out the name of the guitar company/builder?? That sort of factors into the big picture here.]
I guess I'm also confused that it's a "rare factory build," but you know the owner of the shop that builds them? Is this a boutique shop with a few people helping, or is it a large "factory?" These questions go to the "deal" you made in the first place: you're talking about a decently expensive instrument, new or used!
Other questions:
- were there pics of the guitar when you were looking, and are they somehow different than the guitar you received (i.e., the condition and position of the bridge, the marks/dings, etc.)?
- not to "woulda/shoulda," but ... your first description of the music store -- hassling you about setups, not answering your questions, etc. -- made them look pretty bad, so I'm suspicious about them;
- how "used" is "used" -- three years? Five years? Ten years? Twenty?? My 11-year-old guitar is near immaculate -- I baby my gear! -- but I know some guitars get banged around, so I would expect to buy an 11--year-old guitar with some dings on it. Are you being realistic with its appearance?
- do you have any "tech" skills (I don't!), or do you have a good luthier/tech nearby to assess the real condition (not sure where you live, either)??
A $300 return fee sounds pricey, too!
Again, not sure about the guitar company, so not sure how good a "deal" this is. This Holst is a good deal, though! All things said, and hind-sight is 20/20, I wish you had passed on the music store, not just the guitar. If you like the instrument/maker, and there's another one at the original shop, save up and buy it. [Or look for another instrument altogether!]
Good luck! Let us know what happens!
Marc
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Apologies for the missing info
this is an Archtop Tribute Custom AT150CC charlie christian
Masaki is the owner I believe of Walkin Music in Japan - he has the guitars build in the Tread factory, so very much a production line build but very high quality - for the Custom line he hand carves the ebony bridges, and I believe he also makes the knobs
This one was purchased through Rumble Seat Music
I looked through the Reverb.com listing and did not see anything out of place, but there were no close up shots of the guitar - when I called and specifically asked about finish I was told there wasn't really any finish chips
Guitar is only 4 years old (2016 build)
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Update: while I was writing my response, you posted another message on the builder. Got it - thanks!
I haven't played those, but for a used, factory built guitar, that still seems expensive to me. Have you played them before, or just like what you've seen online? [and I've purchased several guitars without ever playing them, so that's not a sin!]
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I have owned one other Archtop Tribute - it replaced my ES-165, they are definitely pricey, but well made and I knew I wanted the CC model as soon as I saw it
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I would send it back and buy something in the States you will be better off by far. Buying a guitar from Japan that you have little information on and no experience I say is not the best approach.
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this guitar came from a shop in Tennessee
Originally Posted by deacon Mark
my other Archtop Tribute came from Walkin in Japan and was flawless
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4mm action and the bridge is bottomed out? Return, refund, and I'd never buy there again. Was there a different bridge in the photos you looked at before buying? Unacceptable.
That bridge ain't that fat. There might be more amiss with this guitar. Dealer is clearly dishonest. Get your money back and run.
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Action is 2.7mm I estimated high earlier
the Archtop Tribute bridge for these is pretty slim to avoid the pickguard, all the photos were a bit far away, the bridge has definitely not been shaped at all - there is also no real notches on top of the bridge
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Send it back. You are never going to be happy with that purchase.
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Another thread that points out the necessity of detailed photos of all areas of the guitar when purchasing online.. Hope you get it sorted out.
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Send it back and file a complaint with the credit card company.
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RESOLVED - called the shop - they weren't aware of the bridge issue - and were fine doing a return or giving me a larger discount - they fully covered the expensive factory correct bridge, and I can deal with the finish blems given the new double discounted price.
They are even sending the check overnight so that i can order the correct bridge asap
the person who I initially dealt with was the new guy at the store and admitted he didn't know much about hollowbodies - the store manager came through and made it right
The neck is straight and the angle looks good, i am taking it to get setup with the current bridge today and i might see what my local place would charge to touch up the blemishes
it sounds very good, and I was probably being a bit more critical than normal due to life stresses
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Glad you arrived at a satisfactory resolution .
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I looked at this EXACT same guitar online for weeks! I almost went by on my day off to check it out. Yikes.
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Glad you are getting it sorted. Nice ax. I had a Gibson CC way back and I bet that what you have is way better. Mine was pretty dead sounding.
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