Princeton and 12” Gold vs Blue

**gggomez** · 12-30-2019, 04:25 PM

I know speaker threads are common. They do often seem to go off topic, can I ask for thoughts exclusively to Celestion Blue v Gold, in particular the 12 inch, of course I am interested in thoughts on the 10 and particularly links to recordings.

I appreciate the Gold 10 is popular, I wonder if this would be diluted if there was a 10 inch blue?

My dilemma is my es175 (and even my Les Paul Deluxe) are too woofy too much bass, not enough extended highs and the highs of the current EMI GB128 are not pleasing to my ears. It just sounds out of balance.

I am not tied to mimicking a 65 sound, I guess I am going after more a brown or even a tweed sound without buying a second amp and appreciate the extra headroom of a 65 Princeton. I hear that a blue or gold could take me that direction.

The blue sounds more classic to me. I am concerned the gold may be too big a sound so if I wind back tone and volume on my guitar do I end up back where I started? The blue worries me re head room and brightness, two issues I believe the Gold addresses? Justified concerns given the required investment.

Thanks, comments please keep to the Celestion Gold and Blues. Links to recordings would be much appreciated. Hard to find links to humbucker guitars let alone hollow bodies and jazz playing.

cheers

**neatomic** · 12-30-2019, 06:11 PM

the blue is basically a 15 watt speaker..the gold is rated at 40 or 50...they pretty much have a similar tone print...but you will get more clean headroom from the gold..as you won't be driving it hard..it will remain very hi-fi...which is whats great about the celestion alnico speakers...they have deep low bass, but not thumpy...pretty even focused mids and a nice chimey high end...

when the blue is pushed is when it can get crunchy...you wont get to that point with the gold from a princetons power

for a loud clean sound hard to beat the gold...if you want some breakup and crunch then the blue...

but for a jazz forum member id recommend the gold...this way the speaker will deliver a truer representation of the guitar and amp...and not add its own crunch and color

cheers

**Eagle2x** · 12-30-2019, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by neatomic

the blue is basically a 15 watt speaker..the gold is rated at 40 or 50...they pretty much have a similar tone print...but you will get more clean headroom from the gold..as you won't be driving it hard..it will remain very hi-fi...which is whats great about the celestion alnico speakers...they have deep low bass, but not thumpy...pretty even focused mids and a nice chimey high end...

when the blue is pushed is when it can get crunchy...you wont get to that point with the gold from a princetons power

for a loud clean sound hard to beat the gold...if you want some breakup and crunch then the blue...

but for a jazz forum member id recommend the gold...this way the speaker will deliver a truer representation of the guitar and amp...and not add its own crunch and color

cheers

Very well described! I was debating the same thing several years ago and put a 12" Celestion Gold instead of the blue. For my application I wanted more headroom which the Gold delivers with a Princeton. I also added the Allen TO-20 output transformer and solid birch baffle upgrade and the amp gets LOUD and clean! When I put the volume of the Princeton at 6-7 (depending on pickup) it starts to break up as overdrive (not all out distortion) - I hit that at 7-8 but that is loud. I just purchased a Dr Z Cure that has a level control for house playing and the wife is much happier, but the Princeton stays and will be a perfect amp for stereo with the Cure.

**neatomic** · 12-30-2019, 10:06 PM

ps- to complicate matters even moreso

celestion now has a ruby alnico celestion rated at 35 watts!...the gold 12 is rated 50...

have not played around with a ruby yet..so can't speak to it

the creamback alnico is way overkill...90 watts i think...tho great for big power amps!!

cheers

**gggomez** · 12-31-2019, 06:45 AM

Yes another option. It does seem to be quite a different sound to the blue and gold.

Thanks you are ratifying my thinking that the gold is the one, logically at least.

**Jimmy Mack** · 12-31-2019, 07:54 PM

Yeah, I agree with what Neatomic said up near the top. The Blue is great for rock and 60's tone. I had one in a Vox AC15, loved it there, but no jazz tones to be found, and it didn't thrill me for playin' the Blues either. Princeton Reverbs do it for me now.
Never tried the Gold, but I had a Celestion G12-75 that had a thick (in a good way) bottom and mids, so I expect the C. family is where you want to go. Not a fan of hemp cones either - waaaayyy too much mids without the nice top end (in my PR).
As a side thought, it's probably easy to sell a Celestial Gold if you are not sold on it.

**ruger9** · 01-01-2020, 09:43 AM

I've heard a PR with the 10" gold, it sounds great.

I own the PR with the 12" Alnico Cream. It also sounds great. Not sure what the sound difference would be in a PR, between a Gold and Cream.... since neither is being pushed much if at all...

I'm kinda' glad I got the Cream tho, because if I ever want to try in in any other amps I might own, even in future, the 90W rating has me covered. (might try it in my Hot Cat some day...)

**Jabberwocky** · 01-01-2020, 12:30 PM

First contrarian view in 2020: get yourself an EQ pedal. Tech21 Q/Strip, Empress ParaEQ, et alia.

Solve an EQ issue with an EQ pedal. Swapping drivers seems an backarsewards way of doing it. Expensive, too. Buy a 10" Gold Alnico if you like its colorations, by all means. It appears you have an EQ problem with your ES-175. A driver swap won't solve it; it merely changes the problem to a new one.

My ha'p'orth of POV is to try an EQ pedal first.

**gggomez** · 01-01-2020, 03:41 PM

I hear you jabberwocky and I suspect part of my issue is to do with luthiers that have mucked up my tone controls somehow. I do want to avoid pedals and am happy to go this route in the prospect I can retain the simplicity.

If this is not a satisfactory solution I will be having a mid knob put in.

the pelican is on its way, I will try do a before and after vid.

happy new year.

**neatomic** · 01-01-2020, 04:51 PM

the speaker is the final shade of your tone...if the speaker has no high end capability..then you are not going to get high end out of your guitar/amp with all the equalizers in the world...from parametric, baxandall, graphic on down!!

be like getting a lamp...getting the exact watt bulb you require...in the perfect color spectrum you prefer...and then using a black lampshade!!!..its gonna be way different light than if you used a transparent white shade..thats a speaker!!!...

its the ultimate equalizer!!!

a bad speaker will mess up everything that's great before it, in the chain!!

plus a speaker is not only about frequency response...its efficiency also dictates volume and breakup!!

go for the gold!!..it'll handle any tone you throw at it

and it will let you hear all the nuances of an eq pedal too!! should you get one

cheers

**Gitfiddler** · 01-01-2020, 06:43 PM

Last year I swapped in a 50 watt Celestion AlNico Gold 12" into my Heritage Victory combo. I bought the speaker used and according to the seller, it was carefully broken in. That speaker sounds amazing! And it sounds better as volume increases.

The lows are tight and thick. The mids are neutral sounding, not scooped or enhanced. The highs are sparkly, yet not at all ice-picky. Pardon my non-technical descriptors. According to Celestion, their frequency range is 75Hz-5kHz. The 40 watt 10" version specs state 80Hz-6kHz.

My comments are related to the 12" Gold, so hopefully others will comment on their experience with the 40 watt 10" version in their Princetons.

**ruger9** · 01-02-2020, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Gitfiddler

Last year I swapped in a 50 watt Celestion AlNico Gold 12" into my Heritage Victory combo. I bought the speaker used and according to the seller, it was carefully broken in. That speaker sounds amazing! And it sounds better as volume increases.

The lows are tight and thick. The mids are neutral sounding, not scooped or enhanced. The highs are sparkly, yet not at all ice-picky. Pardon my non-technical descriptors. According to Celestion, their frequency range is 75Hz-5kHz. The 40 watt 10" version specs state 80Hz-6kHz.

My comments are related to the 12" Gold, so hopefully others will comment on their experience with the 40 watt 10" version in their Princetons.

Your description of the 12" gold is spot-on for my 12" Cream as well. Which makes sense, since the Cream is just a 90W version of the Gold (which is 50W)... at the volumes the PR is capable of putting out, I'll bet the Gold and Cream sound almost identical... I could see the Blue sounding different however.

**gggomez** · 01-07-2020, 05:51 PM

The pelican arrived.

I knew the speaker only had 4 holes but dam how do I get the superfluous speaker screws out without pulling the amp apart? It also seems the 4 holes are slightly out compared to the screw post thingies. Grhh, 1st world problems.

**neatomic** · 01-07-2020, 06:33 PM

ugh...what a drag..sorry...didn't even think of that...i have the gold 10" in front of me..it's got 8!

obviously your choices are...you can either remove the extra 4 screws...from the baffle... by unscrewing...or snip'em...or drill the extra holes into the speaker itself..

there's plenty of talk about both ways via google

sorry, but hopefully worth the effort..i believe so...

luck

cheers

ps- no speaker really needs 8 screws for the baffle..unless its cheap metal frame!...which celestion ain't!

**neatomic** · 01-07-2020, 06:49 PM

pss- the celestion ruby 35 and creamback 90 alnico's have 8 screw holes!! if you don't want the hassle and can return...dang

cheers

**Jimmy Mack** · 01-07-2020, 11:46 PM

Some amps (like my Princeton ReverbII) have a grill cloth panel that is removable from the front. Velcro pads hold it in. A lot of Fenders had this. Try pulling it out. Use a prying tool if necessary, and proceed carefully. If it comes out, you'll have access to the screw heads.

Good luck.

**gggomez** · 01-31-2020, 06:04 AM

Oh yeah I have my sound.

Mid control installed, that is crazy good to my ears, a tweed with head room.

The celestial gold tightened up the base, extended the highs and just sweet sweet sweet.

175 sounds perfect I think the amp needed all the above to handle humbuckers.

.... and les Paul p90 deluxe is heavenly

I can't stop swapping between the two guitars. The amp is now such story teller.

**ruger9** · 01-31-2020, 07:24 AM

I do like the PR with more mids (on my first PR, I swapped the mids resistor for this). However, I don't feel the need on my new PR with the Cream 12" in it. The Cream adds mids on it's own.

That being said, I still prefer the brown PR (6G2), and wish they made one with the blackface reverb in it... that would be perfect, to me. Because chasing the mids on a blackface does not make it a tweed or brownface. There's more to it than that.