Archtop with pickup used for fully acoustic?

[Groooooove]

hey all,

I'm in the market for a nice archtop. I really like eastman and that's more or less the only place I'm looking at the moment (pre-owned for best value, as well)

I like the AR610 (non-cutaway, fully acoustic) and think it would be a great guitar for me. However, i don't see many of them used.

Would I be able to achieve a similar result with the AR610ce (cutaway, floating pickup installed) string up with my choice of acoustic strings? IE is there any real difference between "fully acoustic" and "electric" if the pickup and controls are not mounted on the top of the instrument? If I get a guitar with a pickup, i'm sure I would on occasions put nickel strings on it and use it amplified, so as long as there is no acoustical compromise (aside from strings) I'd be okay with that.

Advice appreciated!

Best,

Thomas

[sgosnell]

Properly mounted, a floating pickup will not change the acoustic sound of the guitar. A big pickguard can muffle the acoustic sound slightly if it extends over the f hole, but it's not a huge amount, and the Eastmans I've seen don't have that large a pickguard. I think you would be happy with an Eastman. Just be aware that with any archtop you won't be hearing the same sound the audience will hear, because of the way it's constructed. Archtops project the sound more concentrated in front, and not spread as much as a flat-top, so the player doesn't hear the true sound. That has nothing to do with a pickup or the lack of it. Some will also argue that a cutaway compromises acoustic sound. That may be true, but I don't believe that it's a big factor. It's difficult to measure, though, since every instrument with a carved spruce top is unique, and who can say what it would have sounded like with a different configuration. If you find a guitar you like, and which sounds good to you acoustically, go for it.

[Longways to Go]

Hey Grooove,

I've got a beautiful AR810CE for sale on consignment at a local guitar shop E. M. Shorts Guitars in Wichita, Kansas. It's got a great acoustic voice and is in mint condition with very little play time. Only reason I'm selling is to downsize the herd.

I think E. M. Shorts has it listed on Reverb. Or just give them a call if you want to check it out.
They are a great shop to deal with. I've been buying and selling with them for many years.

[jads57]

Kent Armstrong USA 12 polepeice floater, Vintage Vibe pickups,Lindy Fralin, etc.

[BBGuitar]

This is what I do when I want louder on my Eastman.

If I want electric sound I use my ES-175.

[Spook410]

Since many makers still don't incorporate a sound port (pity.. they work great) you can hear yourself better with a sound hole. You might prefer an oval hole archtop. Eastman has made some very nice ones that can be found on the used market. Or even a gypsy jazz style set up with strings to suit your needs. I use a low action and .012's which takes it more to the archtop sound rather than the light gauge strings and high action a gypsy jazzer might use.

In any case, a floating pickup won't change the sound. It's connected to either the neck or, more commonly, to the pickguard and doesn't impact the vibration of the top.

[Groooooove]

thanks to those who've replied

I should have specified, i'm far from "new" to archtops, I've owned a number of fairly nice ones over the years (loar, godin, etc)

So the fundamental question is - would the AR610CE (with pickup, and a cutaway) perform exactly as well (cutaway aside) as the AR610 (no pickup, no cutaway) acoustically if strung with bronze string? sounds like the answer is yes (which seems logical.)

does anyone do this?

I really like the mahogany sound over the maple, so those two models are all i've got my eye on at the moment.

[sgosnell]

Theoretically, yes, the acoustic tone should be the same with or without a floating pickguard. No two guitars will sound exactly the same, so it's hard to prove, though. The only way I know of is to play the individual guitar with and without the pickup installed. But I don't believe anyone can hear any difference in a blindfold test.

[Groooooove]

Theoretically, yes, the acoustic tone should be the same with or without a floating pickguard. No two guitars will sound exactly the same, so it's hard to prove, though. The only way I know of is to play the individual guitar with and without the pickup installed. But I don't believe anyone can hear any difference in a blindfold test.

I'm actually not even asking about the pickup itself -

I guess i could re-phrase the question that is the guitar with the pickup, AR610CE in this case, built as a fully-acoustic guitar, which then has a pickup applied - or, is it built in one way or another "different" than a fully acoustic guitar?

I'm convinced the answer is no, they are not different, and I should grab one with a pickup and put bronze strings on it. If anyone has more specific info i'm happy to hear from you, though!

[sgosnell]

Yes, the cutaway version is built as an acoustic guitar.

[Cunamara]

Yes, they will sound the same with or without the pickup. If you like, you can just remove the pickup.

[zcostilla]

I think pretty much every archtop with floaters is built as an acoustic guitar. My Godin 5th Avenue was bought as an acoustic and I added the floater myself. Haven’t gone back to acoustic strings since I converted it, but there is no reason to think it wouldn’t handle going back just fine, since the only holes I added were for the potentiometers and jack (and the pilot hole for relocating the strap button).

[KirkP]

So the fundamental question is - would the AR610CE (with pickup, and a cutaway) perform exactly as well (cutaway aside) as the AR610 (no pickup, no cutaway) acoustically if strung with bronze string? sounds like the answer is yes (which seems logical.)

I think the cutaway will change the tone. It obviously reduces the air volume a bit, and should change the standing wave patterns on the top. Different doesn’t necessarily mean worse, but if you’ve played a non-cutaway archtop, don’t expect a cutaway version of the same model to sound the same.

I have an Eastman AR810CE (cutaway floater) with a lovely acoustic voice. But unless I’m in an acoustically live room much of that tone is projected forward and it sounds a little thin to the player. That’s why even at low volumes at home I prefer to dial in a bit of the pickup. I’ve considered trying bronze strings on my Eastman, but I’d need to replace the pickup with an adjustable pole-piece model. Otherwise the plain strings would overpower the wound ones.

[Seven]

I had also an Eastman AR810CE. It was a gorgeous guitar! I liked to play it. But finally I sold it, because the acoustic sound was a bit to thin for me. Yes I know... it sound different to the audience. Man... but I am the player! And I want to hear it better and a bit richer at the lower tones.

If you have the chance to check a Höfner New President... they sound better unplugged than the Eastman AR610/810. Maybe this is something for you? I had both of them. The New President has a bit smaller body, a 25,5” scale and a floating PU. Both are high quality Archtops
Both are great guitars.

Here is a good YouTube Video about the New President...

[John A.]

I think the cutaway will change the tone. It obviously reduces the air volume a bit, and should change the standing wave patterns on the top. Different doesn’t necessarily mean worse, but if you’ve played a non-cutaway archtop, don’t expect a cutaway version of the same model to sound the same.

I have an Eastman AR810CE (cutaway floater) with a lovely acoustic voice. But unless I’m in an acoustically live room much of that tone is projected forward and it sounds a little thin to the player. That’s why even at low volumes at home I prefer to dial in a bit of the pickup. I’ve considered trying bronze strings on my Eastman, but I’d need to replace the pickup with an adjustable pole-piece model. Otherwise the plain strings would overpower the wound ones.

Have you tried monel strings? They're legit acoustic strings (not quite as bright and zingy as PB), but work as well as any electric string with magnetic pups.

John

[Winterlong]

Try Thomastik acoustic strings. Big difference acoustically. Great with floater as well.