Anyone knows how to make Gibson Classic 57 to floating pu?

[philipark]

I've been searching for a while to find how to make full sized gibson classic 57 into floating mini-hum' depth like the one on that Peter's zeidler .
but I couldn't find any clues on the internet
anyone has heard something about it ?

[Woody Sound]

I've been searching for a while to find how to make full sized gibson classic 57 into floating mini-hum' depth like the one on that Peter's zeidler .
but I couldn't find any clues on the internet
anyone has heard something about it ?

I thought it was a pickup from a Howard Roberts, bicbw.

[Cunamara]

Woody is correct about Pete's pickup. As for converting a Gibson Classic 57 into a floater, I have done that. Since the forum was re-done a few weeks back, the search facility doesn't seem to work very well and I cannot find the thread that I posted about this maybe five years ago. It was called something like "re-new guitar day."


Basically, I cut the legs off of the pickup, filed the cover down to be flush with the base plate and attached a bracket to mount to the pick up on the end of the fingerboard like a Johnny Smith style pickup. It worked great if a little crude in my workmanship; if you can find the old thread, it has pictures. I did damage one of the coils when drilling into the cover, sent it to Kent Armstrong who fixed it and balanced the coils. I have since switched to using a Pete Biltoft HCC pickup on that guitar and the Classic 57 is now sitting in a parts box. If you're interested, I'm happy to sell it to you. PM me. I can measure the minimum space you need, it is a pretty tall pickup.

[Woody Sound]

Woody is correct about Pete's pickup. As for converting a Gibson Classic 57 into a floater, I have done that. Since the forum was re-done a few weeks back, the search facility doesn't seem to work very well and I cannot find the thread that I posted about this maybe five years ago. It was called something like "re-new guitar day."

I did a quick simple search on Classic 57, and retrieved this:

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/sear...archid=1389442

What's odd is that at the bottom it says "1-12 of 26." But then there's no way to advance to the next 14.

[philipark]

well I googled it and it seems pretty cool, looks like it'll fit any guitar with floating hum
but the point is how the howard roberts floating hum was made and why there's no similar p.us in the market ??

[Woody Sound]

well I googled it and it seems pretty cool, looks like it'll fit any guitar with floating hum
but the point is how the howard roberts floating hum was made and why there's no similar p.us in the market ??

I've always been temped to try Shadow's Attila Zoller floater.

Are you looking for full width AND full depth?

Boris Dommenget Guitarmaker handmade Guitars and Pickups

[philipark]

I kept googling it and found dommenget jazzbucker few minutes ago
this look awesome and sounds awesome
I think I gotta place an order for that one for my gb10

[carlones]

Depending on the space you have between the top and the fretboard (regardless of the height of the fret) it is perfectly possible to do it as Cunamara says, much cheaper than the dommenget pickup (sorry dommenget). The most complicated part is attach the bracket, but nowadays, I used simply double-sided tape to attach it, it's a very solid union.

Attachment 66616

[philipark]

looks good but is it really ok to cut off those screws ??

[carlones]

looks good but is it really ok to cut off those screws ??

You mean if it sounds the same as without cutting them?
That is impossible to know, there are too many variables, what I can say is that it sounds like humbucker.

[carlones]

You mean if it sounds the same as without cutting them?
That is impossible to know, there are too many variables, what I can say is that it sounds like humbucker.

I think the height of the coils is more important than the length of the screws to get that sound, IMHO

[philipark]

I thought we couldn't cut off those pole piece screws out of the base plate
now I've start wondering how it's gonna sound like when it's with gb10

[JazzNote]

I did damage one of the coils when drilling into the cover, sent it to Kent Armstrong who fixed it and balanced the coils.

What does that mean, balance the coils?

I kept googling it and found dommenget jazzbucker few minutes ago
this look awesome and sounds awesome
I think I gotta place an order for that one for my gb10

There's a recent thread on the Dommenget Jazzbucker .... Domenget Jazzbucker Full-size Floater anyone?

looks good but is it really ok to cut off those screws ??

I once asked Kent Armstrong about shortening the screws of a 12 pole floater:

Question: the B string was quite loud in the higher register. In order to even out the balance with the other strings i raised the other polepeaces as the one on the B was almost touching the top of the guitar. Would it be okay to shorten the pole piece so that i can screw it down a little more? If i would want to raise it again later would there be any difference in sound because it’s shorter?

Answer: Is it a 12 pole if so take out one of the “B” poles and try it. Yes you can shorten them ..

[Cunamara]

What does that mean, balance the coils?

Matching the DC resistance of the two coils.

[guavajelly]

Where are you located, philipark? I remember reading somewhere that Ali Claudi from Düsseldorf, Germany did attach a full size humbucker of a fellow guitarists vintage L5 with silicone – stable and reversable. Let me know if you are interested, I held contact with Ali since writing a feature for Akustik Gitarre about him.

[Herbie]

Yes it is. In fact it improves the pickup because the magnetic lines of force are not diverted in the wrong direction.

I had to cut the screws on my own instrument because instead of a hole there is a shallow "pocket" about 3/16" deep in the front and slanting to about 1/16" in the rear. I have no idea though if it changed the sound, because I had not heard the pickup before I put it in. I'm guessing you would get a bit more output from the forward coil.

The "pocket" though did have a 1/8" hole in the forward left hand corner for the pickup cable. If you want to go the double-sided tape route you will have to probably drill that 1/8" hole for the cable.

I also changed the cover to a "no hole cover" so that no one would have the temptation to screw the screws down and cause them to bore into the bottom of the "pocket". Also I prefer a "no hole" cover because then my pick does not catch on the screws. I have not noticed any imbalance between the strings so the adjustable feature is not missed.

Indeed, in an interview, Seth Lover, the inventor of the original PAF, said that the Gibson humbucker design actually doesn't need adjustment screws because the pickup is inherently very well balanced across the strings. He said the only reason he put in the adjustment screws was to satisfy the Gibson salesmen.

Seymour Duncan Seymour W. Duncan's Interview With Seth Lover - Guitar Pickups, Bass Pickups, Pedals

Hope this helps,
Avery Roberts

This is all right and fine, but as a side note for Seth: turning the screws makes huge difference in fine tuning the pickup. Typically f.ex. the high E and B are louder so lowering their screws do the balancing. And if the sound is muddy You get more highs and definition by lifting the screws. Same goes with the P90 pickups.

But I like no holes covers too, so go for it!

[ThatRhythmMan]

Herb Ellis sure liked to adjust the pole piece height. I’ve used this as a guideline and followed his advice from an old instructional video with other guitars and been incredibly happy with the results.


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[Cunamara]

Herb knew a thing or two about tone.

[Herbie]

Herb Ellis sure liked to adjust the pole piece height. I’ve used this as a guideline and followed his advice from an old instructional video with other guitars and been incredibly happy with the results.
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Sometimes this could be best adjustment, depending on the material of the strings and the overall height of the pu. But if You some day want more definition for the ’muddy’ low E, raising the pole screw is the ticket.

[bluejaybill]

That's interesting. I wonder then why Seth Lover was so adamant that they were not needed?

Seymour Duncan Seymour W. Duncan's Interview With Seth Lover - Guitar Pickups, Bass Pickups, Pedals

Sorry Seth, I have seen too much improvement in balance from adjustment to go with that argument. The Armstrongs with 12 adjustable poles, even more so.

[jzucker]

i like the pete biltoff full size humber. I did a review of it here. It's not quite like a standard PAF though...

[ThatRhythmMan]

Well that cinches it. Seth Lover was wrong and the salesmen were right. What puzzles me was why he didn't see that.

Could it have been that he had a very balanced set of strings (most likely Gibson Sonomatics) to test the pickup and therefore saw no need for the screws? My own experience with the humbucking pickup (and I've played only humbuckers all my life) is that I've never needed to adjust the screws. All the strings I've used, LaBella Flatwounds, GHS RollerWounds, D'Addrio Ground Round Wounds, and for the longest time RotoSound British Steels, all were nicely balanced without any need for adjustment.

However, other people have had a different experience. One of the pictures shows the high e screw rather high up, indicating a considerable imbalance with the strings. Why I don't know.

Additionally Seth Lover probably would have been concerned that the two coils be completely identical in order to get the best hum rejection. Obviously if one coil has screws and the other has slugs, the coils will not be identical and the hum rejection will be compromised. I can attest to that concern because one time I briefly played an Ibanez with a non adjustable pickup with identical coils. Super 80 I think was the name of the pickup. The hum rejection was far superior to that of the Gibson. Indeed I couldn't hear any hum at all.

But, all this is bad news for the OP. The 57 Classic I think would be a rather tight fit and if the screws needed to be adjusted downward then they would damage the top, and if adjusted upward could snag on the strings or on the pick, or simply be too close to the strings - too much magnetic pull. He would have to get a proper floater from say Kent Armstrong.

Take a look at some of the other poles in the pic. Some are actually sunken in below the cover. After seeing how Herb Ellis did this, I’ve tried this with several other pickups with great results. This really only applies to the neck pickup. A bridge pickup doesn’t show nearly as much string to string variation, presumably due to the much smaller amplitude of string movement at that position.

I’ve seen some pretty dramatic differences in string to string output of an unadjusted humbucker using an SPL meter. These adjustments can help compensate for that, but with some higher output pickups, I haven’t been able to get some stings, usually the low E and the B to balance out no matter what. They are still louder than the others.


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[jzucker]

My reason for the "no holes" cover was not because I either like them or not like them, but because the geometry of my body results in my picking hand ending up over the pickup and my pick would snag on the screws.

For that reason too, I like a wax potted pickup, since it doesn't pick up the mechanical sound when the pick contacts the pickup.

Cheers

I've got wax potted pickups on all my guitars and they the humbuckers with metal covers still audibly click when the pick hits them. I think it depends on how "well" they've been potted but classic 57s, dimarzio pafs and a recent pickup by pete biltoff all click when the pick hits them. On my barney kessel, i even had the pickups repotted and they still do it.

[bluejaybill]

Take a look at some of the other poles in the pic. Some are actually sunken in below the cover. After seeing how Herb Ellis did this, I’ve tried this with several other pickups with great results. This really only applies to the neck pickup. A bridge pickup doesn’t show nearly as much string to string variation, presumably due to the much smaller amplitude of string movement at that position.

I’ve seen some pretty dramatic differences in string to string output of an unadjusted humbucker using an SPL meter. These adjustments can help compensate for that, but with some higher output pickups, I haven’t been able to get some stings, usually the low E and the B to balance out no matter what. They are still louder than the others.


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I agree, even on my solid bodies I find not only better string balance, but also you can affect the tone both with overall pickup height and screw height.

It's even more pronounced on a floater, I have been through three on mine and so far the Armstrong with 12 polices is the only one I've been able to balance correctly.

I suppose you could adjust your picking for loud strings, on an archtop that is usually the second for me. The problem is I have a couple of vintage Fenders- and on those I need to adjust for the third string! As I have said here before, and maybe even on this thread. So even string volume is a big help.

[Herbie]

Talking about the pole screws: Pat Metheny had loose screws – or no screws at all! – in September 9th 1979 with Joni and Jaco at Santa Barbara Bowl.

Does somebody know more about his pole screw adjustments?