Fender Tone Master TWIN Reverb

**wzpgsr** · 09-13-2019, 05:01 PM

Preamp and power amp modeling has gotten very good. The weak link is the sound of the “amp in the room”—the cab modeling. Not a big deal for recording, but the whole buy 1000x impulse responses, dig around till you find one that isn’t too boomy, or too shrill, then listen to it either through high-powered PA speakers or studio monitors just sucks. If the build quality is good, these amps could represent sort of the best case for realistic modeling when the sound of an actual “amp in the room” is important.

**wengr** · 09-13-2019, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

But they aren't tube amps they are digital. What I mean is if Tone Masters really nail the tone and response of the originals and they are much lighter, would you still use your DV Mark, Henriksen, Quilter etc.

Yes I would. Apples and an attempt at lighter weight Oranges.

**Alter** · 09-13-2019, 05:04 PM

They sure get a lot of promotion. I don't see them taking off personally, digital amps with these dimensions and these prices.

**John A.** · 09-13-2019, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

(Checks online manual...) Okay, I see. I still think there's market room. The sales pitch for the Tone Master is not "It's a Champion, without that voice knob!". It's that it's a pro-grade combo with a better grade of modeling. Now would a voice knob hurt or help sales?

I'm skeptical that the modeling (as in the actual math and or I/R data and/or processing power) is actually better than a Champion. I suspect it's more a matter of the enclosure, speakers, and amp sections of the combo being better, and the controls being a truer mirror of what's on the real things. But the proof of the pudding is in the eating, not the typing.

John

**christianm77** · 09-13-2019, 05:29 PM

If it sounds as good as my prri, is lighter, does attenuation and di’s ... ok

I’ll A/B against a Tech 21 though.

Tbh live a lot of stuff boils down to practicality. So many times on stage sound is kind of balls whatever you use. The Tech 21 is a good enough approximation of a Fender amp to be quite satisfying to play through. And it comes in a tin.

Of course all the pros who need multiple sounds for shows and big gigs use Axe FX.

Nice tube amps are now for recording. The days of the high wattage tube amp - even the Twin - are kind of over for pro players ... even the Princeton is too loud for recording. I need a 5w amp.

So .... where’s the champs, Fender?

And why not a Tonemaster head?

**jads57** · 09-13-2019, 05:49 PM

These look great! And that's probably the main selling point that it's actually a Fender .
But already having several Quilter Aviator amps I feel covered already. But I'd love to actually try them.

**Tal_175** · 09-13-2019, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

Your lucky day. They are making all three. Twin, DR and Princeton. Later two are even lighter and cheaper.

Actually my mistake, I don't think they are making Tone Master Princeton, only DR and Twin.

**christianm77** · 09-13-2019, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

Actually my mistake, I don't think they are making Tone Master Princeton, only DR and Twin.

Ok. But the DR is like 11 kg. Which isn’t bad...

**christianm77** · 09-13-2019, 05:58 PM

Also the cab sims sound really good

**MikeTT** · 09-13-2019, 07:16 PM

I recently watched the Anderton video about these:

I think it's an excellent example of how important the speaker is and they missed the opportunity to check them out with the digital's speaker plugged into the tube version and vice versa.
On the the deluxe the tube version sounded so much better (to me) and with the twin it was the other way round. My suspicion is that the tube deluxe already has been played a lot in the store.

**jazznero** · 09-14-2019, 04:34 AM

There's a new demo from Sweetwater/ Fender... I think the twin sounds better....

**ruger9** · 09-14-2019, 08:54 AM

I wouldn't dismiss them out-of-hand, since now owning a Roland Blues Cube Artist... which is a seriously good amp. After owning this amp, my bias against solid state has finally been conquered. I'll always own tube amps (and just ordered a Bad Cat), but ain't nothing wrong with solid state done right... and a few people ARE doing it right these days (and that goes for more than just jazz tones!)

My Roland BCA with the Ultimate Blues Tone Capsule supplanted my heavier 60W tube amp for my cover band, no regrets ! And no more sore back either! LOL

**medblues** · 09-14-2019, 09:30 AM

I have a Fender Super Champ X2 Head which includes all those models and more (Supersonic, Jazzmaster etc) with a tube power amp stage. With a high efficiency cab (Eminence Wizard) it is very very loud. For those of you who wants to save money, it can be bought for $300 new plus your choice of speaker cab (not from me).

**wzpgsr** · 09-14-2019, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by medblues

I have a Fender Super Champ X2 Head which includes all those models and more (Supersonic, Jazzmaster etc) with a tube power amp stage. With a high efficiency cab (Eminence Wizard) it is very very loud. For those of you who wants to save money, it can be bought for $300 new plus your choice of speaker cab (not from me).

That’s the thing about the Twin though. The cab and 2x12 inch speakers is a huge part of the sound. You don’t get that sound in the room when you are playing a super champ X2. I’m not saying it doesn’t sound good – – it probably sounds very good. But I doubt that it is as accurate a classic Twin sound as this new TM amp.

**christianm77** · 09-14-2019, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

I was mistaken. I corrected it in a later post above. Looks like they aren't making ToneMaster PR's. I guess PR is already not too taxing to carry around. It seems like they focused on the heavier amps.

A lighter PR would be very good. You don’t really want to take a PR too far on foot.

If they got it down to 7kg say, that would be on my shopping list.

As it is probably won’t bother. More likely to get lightweight separates. If they had a ToneMaster head I’d buy that.

**Spook410** · 09-14-2019, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by ruger9

I wouldn't dismiss them out-of-hand, since now owning a Roland Blues Cube Artist...

This was the route I took. Kind of expensive but to my ears best of them. I'm using the crystal clear tone module with an archtop and liking it quite a bit.

Thing is.. for the same 35 pounds that the Artist weighs, if I could have a really good Twin seems like I would go for the latter. If they are as good as early reviews, maybe I can avoid playing one for awhile. No room for more amps around here.

**medblues** · 09-14-2019, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by wzpgsr

That’s the thing about the Twin though. The cab and 2x12 inch speakers is a huge part of the sound. You don’t get that sound in the room when you are playing a super champ X2. I’m not saying it doesn’t sound good – – it probably sounds very good. But I doubt that it is as accurate a classic Twin sound as this new TM amp.

That's true, my point is if I get a nice heavy 2x12 open back cab (and a trolley) and hook up the X2 into it, I will have the Twin sound and more amp models and more effects available, with hi-efficiency drivers, the difference in loudness will be insignificant. However, if the Tonemaster gives you the capability of adding models (or something similar to the TonePrint of TC Electronic) then it's a good deal.

**dwparker** · 09-15-2019, 03:45 AM

Has anyone compared these to the new Boss Nextone amps? I am wondering if for half the price a Nextone can be dialed to approximately the same sound as either of these.

**christianm77** · 09-15-2019, 05:42 AM

Although I suppose you could also say - if you are driving why not use a real deluxe? (Ok twin is difficult even if you are driving haha)

**Tal_175** · 09-15-2019, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Although I suppose you could also say - if you are driving why not use a real deluxe? (Ok twin is difficult even if you are driving haha)

I used to have a princeton. I had a gig one time that was only 15mins walking distance from the subway. I decided to just carry it. I regretted that decision extremely shortly after walking with it. It's weight doubles every 2 mins. Now I have deluxe. It's only a little bit heavier. For public transit I use a dolly.
So yeah I guess for short distances like going up the stairs or carrying the amp to your car, Deluxe and Princeton are practically the same.

**ruger9** · 09-15-2019, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by Spook410

This was the route I took. Kind of expensive but to my ears best of them. I'm using the crystal clear tone module with an archtop and liking it quite a bit.

Thing is.. for the same 35 pounds that the Artist weighs, if I could have a really good Twin seems like I would go for the latter. If they are as good as early reviews, maybe I can avoid playing one for awhile. No room for more amps around here.

I went with the Ultimate Blues Tone Capsule (which is a Marshall Superlead on the crunch channel), which works great for my classic rock cover band.

For more jazzy/old-school stuff, I would have left it stock (no tone capsule = Fender Tweed Bassman)

**ruger9** · 09-15-2019, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Although I suppose you could also say - if you are driving why not use a real deluxe? (Ok twin is difficult even if you are driving haha)

Weight. In my case, it was a 60W tube amp (54 lbs) vs the Roland BCA (35 lbs.) Not only is it more pleasant to carry, when I have a staircase involved it MATTERS. Alot. While the BCA might not really have the "thump" of the tubes, that thump is not something that gets translated into the mains anyway.... especially when you can't turn up that loud anyway. So it doesn't really matter. The BCA sounds great, feels really good, and is light.

Don't get me wrong- I'll always have tube amps. But in a loud live situation, it simply doesn't matter that much. People can get too precious with live tone. No one can tell the difference at those volumes, going thru PA, in a room full of people. (and in SOME of today's SS amps, there really isn't much difference anyway. The Roland stuff SHOCKED me, how much they sound AND FEEL and REACT like tubes.)

Now... if I were in a jazz trio, I would be MUCH more picky about my tone, since it was front and center. Altho after years of reading here, the same still seems to apply- most people agree that, a good player with a decent amp can always get a good workable tone. Unless you're going for something very specific, like the Charlie Christian octal tube thing, in which case there's always the Nocturne Junior Barnyard for those situations.

**christianm77** · 09-16-2019, 04:07 AM

Well.... yeah.

I tried a mambo yesterday. It was quite good.

**geoff23** · 09-16-2019, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Well.... yeah.

I tried a mambo yesterday. It was quite good.

Was it a recent one - i.e., the one with the mini toggle switch that gives a “fender” tone stack option? I tried a Mambo a few years back (pre-“fender”) and didn’t really like it that much. It was too polytone-ish for my taste. But, for me, the “fender” switch transforms the amp. I use it at home in preference to my Princeton and my Carr.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**christianm77** · 09-16-2019, 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by geoff23

Was it a recent one - i.e., the one with the mini toggle switch that gives a “fender” tone stack option? I tried a Mambo a few years back (pre-“fender”) and didn’t really like it that much. It was too polytone-ish for my taste. But, for me, the “fender” switch transforms the amp. I use it at home in preference to my Princeton and my Carr.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yeah I think I heard one of the early ones and it was a bit nasty sounding.

New ones seem much improved.

Re: the switch... I was happy with the vanilla eq actually. But - My guitar (old 175) sounds really good through flat response eqs though. I can plug it into a PA straight and it sounds good. Very characterful guitar.

I’m kind of moving away from Fender with it and more towards solid state. i like it straight into my AER with no reverb for instance. Also fender amps do a fabulous job of taking those plinky, lively acoustic-ish tones older 175s produce and turning them into nasty ice pick trebles. I have to use an EQ.

It’s going to be different for every instrument. Fender is probably a better match for an L5 or maybe more recent 175. OTOH I’ve heard a lot of pro guitarists (world class name players even) with great gear get some sounds I wouldn’t be happy with at all.... often it depends where you sit. I find fenders so directional with the treble .

My friend was playing a Benedetto through the Mambo and wasn’t so happy (I thought it sounded good) he wants a Deluxe.... maybe he should try one of these Tonemasters....