GIBSON ES-165 Herb Ellis R. Severson

**Durban** · 05-27-2019, 09:10 AM

Unlikely we will ever see ES165 again from Gibson pity great guitars

Rich. Severson gives very good idea what they sound & look like and as always, great playing from Rich

**lawson-stone** · 05-27-2019, 10:01 AM

What a great demo! That guy, in addition to his well known ability, has to be the best guitar-shop noodler on the planet! Can you imagine walking into a store and hearing THAT?

**Max405** · 05-28-2019, 08:33 AM

To me, the 165 is a smart guitar for the Jazz Player.
Ive been lucky to own 2 and I still have one. Its just another one of those guitars that you regret selling. I take mine for granted, because I always want something else. It would be wise to hang onto it because it does everything very well. And I think the one I have (the Lightburst with the Floating BJB) is one of the prettiest guitars Gibson ever made.
JD

**TedBPhx** · 05-28-2019, 11:02 AM

Anyone here tried the rubber washers on the pickup ring trick?

**wengr** · 05-28-2019, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by TedBPhx

Anyone here tried the rubber washers on the pickup ring trick?

I have not. I can't imagine how it could make a difference as the weight is still carried by the top.

**wengr** · 05-28-2019, 11:22 AM

Also, is it not correct that this guitar would have shipped with a gold TOM?

**lawson-stone** · 05-28-2019, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by wengr

Also, is it not correct that this guitar would have shipped with a gold TOM?

You are right, the gold tune-o-matic was standard.

**Bahnzo** · 05-29-2019, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by wengr

I have not. I can't imagine how it could make a difference as the weight is still carried by the top.

Isn't the reason for this to limit the amount of surface area the pickup rings contact with the vibrating top?

**losaltosjoe** · 05-29-2019, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by TedBPhx

Anyone here tried the rubber washers on the pickup ring trick?

Here's Rich's video on the subject:

I've never tried it but I'm curious.

**lawson-stone** · 05-29-2019, 06:04 PM

And if you want the ES165 on a budget, I strongly commend the Epiphone Zephyr Regent Re-issue. Laminated maple top, Laminated mahogany back/sides, mahogany neck, one humbucker. I put a SD Seth Lover in it and really love this guitar. They are out there for less than $500. The neck is Epiphone style slimmer than Gibson, which I enjoy too (no slight on Gibson necks intended there!).

BTW the "Crown" inlay on the headstock is a decal I added, just for fun!
GIBSON ES-165 Herb Ellis R. Severson-epiphone-zephyr-regent-jpg

GIBSON ES-165 Herb Ellis R. Severson-epiphone-zephyr-regent-jpg

**lawson-stone** · 05-29-2019, 06:16 PM

The really interesting thing about this video is doing the washer thing on the bridge pickup. I really do think the 1 pickup Gibsons--the ES165, the L5 WesMo--have a livelier tone partly because they don't have the mass of the pickup right at the bridge. Of course, they also have WOOD there, and the washer trick won't change the fact that you have a hole there. Still, I plan to try this on one of my "workbench" guitars, probably an Epiphone Broadway, and see how it works.

**Bahnzo** · 05-29-2019, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Still, I plan to try this on one of my "workbench" guitars, probably an Epiphone Broadway, and see how it works.

I'd be curious to see how this turns out. I bought some nylon washers when I was Home Depot this weekend, but I'm not going to try this until I need to change strings, which is months away I hope.

Maybe record a video of you playing before and after?

**lawson-stone** · 05-29-2019, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Bahnzo

I'd be curious to see how this turns out. I bought some nylon washers when I was Home Depot this weekend, but I'm not going to try this until I need to change strings, which is months away I hope.

Maybe record a video of you playing before and after?

Yeah that could be fun. I likely will need to put this idea on hold until August. I leave pretty soon for 6 weeks in Israel with students and when I get back the Honey-Do list is pretty extensive! But maybe August will find me tinkering with that Epi (wiring harness replacement) and trying this idea.

**wengr** · 05-29-2019, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Bahnzo

Isn't the reason for this to limit the amount of surface area the pickup rings contact with the vibrating top?

Well that is what he seems to say. I saw the video some time ago, but I just don't get the physics of it.

In my view, the impact of the pickup is the weight of the pickup.

If the pickup was attached to the guitar, while also somehow affixed to something else, then I could see the importance of the connection method to the guitar. But it's not affixed to anything else, only the top. it's just another weight suspended from the top, robbing it of energy. Therefore I don't see how the method of suspension matters.
All it does I expect is add yet a little more weight, (four washers), which is moving in the wrong direction imho, but in the audio realm placebo effect can be very powerful.

I'm actually a big fan of Rich and his materials, but I can't agree on this one.

**sgosnell** · 05-29-2019, 10:14 PM

Part of the effect of the pickup ring is that it presses on the top, and seldom fits precisely, so it often has more pressure in the center, and further deadens the vibration. Weight is not the only issue with set pickups. I'm not sure it makes a big difference on every guitar, but I think it could in some instances. It doesn't cost much to try it, and it's easily reversible if it hurts. Washers are pretty cheap.

**geogio** · 05-31-2019, 10:34 PM

Are there 2 Herb Ellis models out there?

One has the pick up closer to the neck and the other one has to pick up in the es-175 neck position an inch or so off of the end of the fretboard?

And then some 165's have the tune-o-matic and some have a Ebony or Rosewood Bridge.

Some of the pots on the body, some have just a volume knob on the pickguard with no tone pot at all.

Or perhaps it is more the case in of the ES-165 vs the Herb Ellis ES-165

**Durban** · 06-01-2019, 05:13 AM

Re ES165 necks: ive had two and played a few others, necks seem to vary a bit. I cant be totally accurate
but can say my 1st 1991 was fatter chunkier but comfortable.

The 165 i have now is 2000 the neck is definately thinner ( i would not call it super thin) but its just so comfortable it feels like it was made for me if that makes sense.

Eg necks can be slimmer/ish but sometimes radius too flat or too round. Two Eastman AR371 i had were thinnish at nut and 12F area but slightly wider across say 57mm as oppessed to 53mm. I did not like them very much at all intially appeal which did not last.

so not just a case of thin or thick. these parameters all drop into place once you had/played a guitar for some time.

I wont sell mine, its great. but would like to try a classic 57 the 590R is not bad but slightly brigter at top than i play. I cant remember now but both iv owned have been pretty lively accoustically and fairly loud, even with roundwound which i tried never for longer than a few weeks then back to 13-54 Flatswounds

IMO pretty reasonably priced (i would not like ES165 Plus with xtra knobs and pup.) I think prices have gone up very approx 15% ish in about 3 years, a bit, but at least not down