High e string too quiet on tele with tone knob rolled down

[zyang62]

Hi guys!

I've been using a mim tele with dimarzio paf 59 humbucker in the neck position. One problem I have is that when I play jazz, I roll the tone knob all the way down, which seemed to cut off too much highs on the high e string making it really quiet. The high e is as loud as others when I have the tone knob at 5 or higher, but then it will be too twangy for jazz. Both the volume and tone pot are 250k.

I've tried to raise pickup on treble side and lower it on bass side, it works a bit but high e is still quieter than g and b string. I'm thinking of changing the volume pot to 500k. Is this a good idea?

Thanks in advance.

[KirkP]

Wouldn’t a 500 ohm volume pot tend to make the pickup even brighter?

Have you tried turning the amp volume way up so you can set the guitar’s volume control in the 4 to 8 range? I think lower volume pot settings smooth out the frequency response of a magnetic coil pickup. Some people take this to the extreme and set the amp to full volume.

But I have to admit I find it difficult to dial in the tone that in my head on my American Standard Telecaster.

[Tal_175]

Sounds like you're using light gauge strings. 12 and higher guages are twang killers.

[GodinFan]

Hi guys!

I've been using a mim tele with dimarzio paf 59 humbucker in the neck position. One problem I have is that when I play jazz, I roll the tone knob all the way down, which seemed to cut off too much highs on the high e string making it really quiet. The high e is as loud as others when I have the tone knob at 5 or higher, but then it will be too twangy for jazz. Both the volume and tone pot are 250k.

I've tried to raise pickup on treble side and lower it on bass side, it works a bit but high e is still quieter than g and b string. I'm thinking of changing the volume pot to 500k. Is this a good idea?

Thanks in advance.

Check the pickup height setting; that can make a huge difference.

As others have said, changing to 500k pots will make it brighter.

Why not try keeping the guitar tone knob at 5 or higher, and turning down the highs on the amp?

I find that the stock tele pickup, which has a tighter radius on the cover results in some falloff on the high E when used with modern fingerboard radii.

[pauln]

Turning the tone all the way down means you are rolling off high frequencies that can't be restored by the tones on the amp.
Try setting the Tele tone to 5, adjust the amp tone, and see if that works.

[Cunamara]

Raise the pole under that string a lot. Cheapest thing to try.

250k pots with a humbucker rolled all the way off seems like it'd be really muddy, based on my experience. If you're looking for a Gibsonish sound, I'd consider swapping to 500k pots and an .022, .033 or .047 cap to taste. Problematic if you want to use the Tele bridge pickup, though.

A jazz sound isn't dark per se- listen to Johnny Smith, Barney Kessel, Charlie Christian, Peter Berstein. Heck even the tone of Ed Bickert still had a fair amount of high frequency information.

[Hep To The Jive]

Take the high E string off. Your guitar will be even darker sounding without it, perfect for jazz, and you won't have this problem.

[rpjazzguitar]

Take the high E string off. Your guitar will be even darker sounding without it, perfect for jazz, and you won't have this problem.

If you lower the pickup, the string will sound less twangy. To balance the volume, the usual thing is to lower the bass side even more. But, if that doesn't work ...

You can raise a polepiece (which may require swapping in a pickup with adjustable polepieces) but, that will increase both twanginess and and volume. So, it's not that likely to help.

Perhaps somebody can explain why changing the pot value helps. Is the following correct? A 500k pot, full up, shows the pickup 500k ohms to ground. So, if you put in a 250K, more juice goes to ground and the pickup output is lower. Is that right? Will changing the cap value make a difference if the tone control is all the way up anyway?

And, one long shot. I have heard, without being sure, that the bridge saddle can make trouble if the slot isn't cut correctly or the saddle isn't tight. So, I'd try it with the E string lifted out of the slot (if there is one on that guitar) or, at least, moved to the side a little bit. And, I'd try it while putting some pressure on the saddle; that will damp vibration, if any. You can easily hear if either of these make a difference. Long shot, but quick and no-cost.

[Tal_175]

I repeat, if you're using 9's, Tele is gonna sound twangy. Pots and pickup height is not gonna change much. You'll need an 800 core sound processing engine.
If you're using 12 or higher gauge flats and have humbuckers then you've already reached the untwangy limits of Tele. It should sound fairly jazzy at that point.

[Hep To The Jive]

I repeat, if you're using 9's, Tele is gonna sound twangy. Pots and pickup height is not gonna change much. You'll need an 800 core sound processing engine.
If you're using 12 or higher gauge flats and have humbuckers then you've already reached the untwangy limits of Tele. It should sound fairly jazzy at that point.

'the untwangy limits of Tele!' Boom!

I dont know why but now this image surfaced in my head...

[Tal_175]

'the untwangy limits of Tele!' Boom!

I dont know why but now this image surfaced in my head...

That's very funny (in this context). Hey, I love playing jazz on my Strats. Sometimes I prefer them over my horse (ES 175).

[Hep To The Jive]

That's very funny (in this context). Hey, I love playing jazz on my Strats. Sometimes I prefer them over my horse (ES 175).

Hey, I love playing jazz on my tele too, and actually prefer it to my Guild (ES-175 version), but for exactly the qualities it posses. I never get on with the dark side of the Jazz guitar tone spectrum.

[coolvinny]

Or just go up one string gauge for your high E string and keep the rest the same. I doubt you'll notice any adverse effects.

Different picks also have different tones and I find this is most magnified on the B and E strings, but your easiest fix is still to up a gauge for your high E.

[zyang62]

I'm using 10s, some people say flatwound 12s can make a tele instantly jazzy. Guess I'll give it a try

[zyang62]

Good idea! I will experiment with string gauges and amp setting first.

[Greentone]

Fenders originally left Leo's factory with 12s. Get at least 11s back on there.

[Alder Statesman]

Out of curiosity, how old are those strings? Light gauge strings, particularly the high E, loose their magnetism fairly quickly.

[floatingpickup]

I have played archtops all my life (Mostly ES-175s and L-5’s). I bought three different tele’s in recent years and just couldn’t get used to them. As noted by the OP, the high strings seemed a little weak and didn’t have the percussive attack that I am used to. I realize that this is partly due to my technique and if I played with a softer/more delicate touch, it would probably help balance things out. At the end of the day, I didn’t keep any of the tele’s. Being a big fan of Ed Bickert, I know a tele can sound great, but I guess they aren’t really my cup of tea.
Keith

[christianm77]

Hi guys!

I've been using a mim tele with dimarzio paf 59 humbucker in the neck position. One problem I have is that when I play jazz, I roll the tone knob all the way down, which seemed to cut off too much highs on the high e string making it really quiet. The high e is as loud as others when I have the tone knob at 5 or higher, but then it will be too twangy for jazz. Both the volume and tone pot are 250k.

I've tried to raise pickup on treble side and lower it on bass side, it works a bit but high e is still quieter than g and b string. I'm thinking of changing the volume pot to 500k. Is this a good idea?

Thanks in advance.

Simple advice - don’t do that. :-)

Patient : Doctor it hurts when I do this.
Doctor: don’t do it then

IMHO if you need to roll your tone pot all the way, you need to address your right hand tone production. You should ideally be able to produce the sound you want on flat EQ settings and compensate for the room.


Pay attention to the angle of your pick as it strikes the strings, your hand position along the length of the strings, the strength of your pick attack and so on. Be aware of how small adjustments affect your sound. Listen carefully. When I’m playing modern jazz I pick pretty much over the neck pickup with firmish pickstrokes.

There’s a lot you can do before you address gear - even simple changes such as picks.

I play a stock tele with single coils. I find it perfectly good for getting a wide range of tones from jazz to country to rock. OTOH my 175 is a pretty bright guitar too. I can get my tone on pretty much any guitar (although I do find gauge .10 or lighter strings very challenging to play on.)

My suggestion would be to force yourself to practise with a wide open tone knob and a flat setting on your amp and zero reverb and try to make the tone by changing the way you pick. That might be horrible to you starting out, but practice is about learning something and that often sounds bad. Which is why we can’t do too much of it in one sitting.

When you play music - make sure you understand the distinction to practice - you should feel free to set up the amp to sound good to you. Don’t be to dogmatic about the setting on the amp - use your ears. Every room is different and what may sound great in the practice room may sound very different in a different room, or with other musicians.

What amp are you using? I find I have to roll down bass and treble on my Princeton to get a flat EQ for instance, but the AER is flat as default. Personally I prefer to EQ from the amp - or better still an EQ pedal - but the guitar controls are good for as hoc fine tuning.

Gear wise - you may need to up your string gauge - I use TI bebop .12s which are a set with relatively low tension in general but a heavy top. But I think it should be possible to get a good jazz sound with .11s or even .10s if you are paying attention to the sound. Lastly your pick imo should be no lighter than 1.5mm unless you are a Benson picker.

[zyang62]

Out of curiosity, how old are those strings? Light gauge strings, particularly the high E, loose their magnetism fairly quickly.

That's true! I always used 10s and I noticed this problem become more obvious after one or two weeks of playing. Now I want to try flatwound 12s.

[zyang62]

Simple advice - don’t do that. :-)

Patient : Doctor it hurts when I do this.
Doctor: don’t do it then

IMHO if you need to roll your tone pot all the way, you need to address your right hand tone production. You should ideally be able to produce the sound you want on flat EQ settings and compensate for the room.


Pay attention to the angle of your pick as it strikes the strings, your hand position along the length of the strings, the strength of your pick attack and so on. Be aware of how small adjustments affect your sound. Listen carefully. When I’m playing modern jazz I pick pretty much over the neck pickup with firmish pickstrokes.

There’s a lot you can do before you address gear - even simple changes such as picks.

I play a stock tele with single coils. I find it perfectly good for getting a wide range of tones from jazz to country to rock. OTOH my 175 is a pretty bright guitar too. I can get my tone on pretty much any guitar (although I do find gauge .10 or lighter strings very challenging to play on.)

My suggestion would be to force yourself to practise with a wide open tone knob and a flat setting on your amp and zero reverb and try to make the tone by changing the way you pick. That might be horrible to you starting out, but practice is about learning something and that often sounds bad. Which is why we can’t do too much of it in one sitting.

When you play music - make sure you understand the distinction to practice - you should feel free to set up the amp to sound good to you. Don’t be to dogmatic about the setting on the amp - use your ears. Every room is different and what may sound great in the practice room may sound very different in a different room, or with other musicians.

What amp are you using? I find I have to roll down bass and treble on my Princeton to get a flat EQ for instance, but the AER is flat as default. Personally I prefer to EQ from the amp - or better still an EQ pedal - but the guitar controls are good for as hoc fine tuning.

Gear wise - you may need to up your string gauge - I use TI bebop .12s which are a set with relatively low tension in general but a heavy top. But I think it should be possible to get a good jazz sound with .11s or even .10s if you are paying attention to the sound. Lastly your pick imo should be no lighter than 1.5mm unless you are a Benson picker.

Thank you for your advice! I'm using laney 12R with upgraded eminence speaker. I know it's not a jazz amp but I like it's 1 watt setting where it sounds warm and full at bedroom level. I find I have to turn down bass knob when playing jazz, otherwise it's too muddy, maybe that's because I rolled guitar tone knob to 0, can't wait to experiment with some different settings.

[christianm77]

Thank you for your advice! I'm using laney 12R with upgraded eminence speaker. I know it's not a jazz amp but I like it's 1 watt setting where it sounds warm and full at bedroom level. I find I have to turn down bass knob when playing jazz, otherwise it's too muddy, maybe that's because I rolled guitar tone knob to 0, can't wait to experiment with some different settings.

Any amp is a jazz amp if it has sufficient headroom :-) my favourite atm is the Peavey Classic 30. Fantastic amp, save the money you’d spend on a Fender.

I owned a Laney for a years and found it to be a good sounding amp. Not as bright as a Fender, more British voiced, so more midrange. You probably don’t need to worry about EQ’ing so much.

Upgrading the speaker is a good shout. I have the lil buddy which is super efficient and gives me more headroom than I’d ever need from 12/15W Fender Princeton. Tames the high end a little too which is good, because the least used sentence in the English language is ‘hey that tele through the Princeton could really use a bit more treble.’

[Tal_175]

That's true! I always used 10s and I noticed this problem become more obvious after one or two weeks of playing. Now I want to try flatwound 12s.

I have one stat with 10's on it and one with 12's. The difference is remarkable. I'm gonna go out on a limb and postulate that 12's on a strat will sound as full as a PAF pickup guitar with 9's (or even 10's). String gauge makes that much difference. I'm not saying they'll sound the same BTW.

[Tal_175]

In fact probably for a stat to truely sound like a strat, it should have 9's on it.