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a local blues guy has a 1x12 with the jensen c12n in it. I played through it and found it grainy. It captures the vibe of the early '60s rock & roll groups but for jazz I wasn't crazy about it. I like the G12H-75 creamback much better but it's all subjective.
Originally Posted by Greentone
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02-27-2019 09:08 PM
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Jack,
Fair assessment. My favorite setup with the C12n was a blackface Bassman with a small Fender 2x12 cabinet with two 60s C12n speakers. The amp was used for blues and Tele/country. Grit/spit was important.
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original jensens were good speakers...the alnicos especially..but they were very low power..and low efficiency..the italian made moderns are a different thing altogether
originals were good sounding with low watt unpushed amps...but couldnt withstand trauma..deluxe amps on 8, with a fuzz..forget it..their voicecoils shredded
jbl speakers came along with super efficiency and higher watt rating and that was it!!!
the new paradigm
uk had celestion alnicos..not high power but efficient and pristine..think two celestion alnico 15 watt 12" blues in a vox ac-30!!
which is why present celestion alnico golds and alnico creams kill...they have the vintage alnico voicing with the low gauss alnico mag tone and efficient broad frequency response...but can withstand higher output amps...unbeatable
cheers
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Eminence Neo Deltalites for me because they are as flat as it gets, completely neutral and very light. What goes in is what comes out.
For studio rainy days my JBL D130 has that warm fat compressed feel but I worry about hauling it around now.
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the deltalites are nasally sounding IMO. I haven't heard a single neo speaker that doesn't have a nasal quality in some regard. The celestion BN300 is one of the least nasally neo speakers I've heard but it's still there.
When the neo magnets first came out, the speaker manufacturers took existing designs and just slapped a neo magnet on there. That didn't work. Now, manufacturers such as celestion seem to be designing speakers specifically for the neo magnets but IMO they still need another round of refactoring before they get it right.
There must be a particular frequency range that is the culprit because when used as a woofer with a crossover below 1k, the nasally quality is not apparent...
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We'll have to agree to disagree after I stop laughing. If the Deltalite ii sounds nasally it is what is going into it. As the reference charts will show you the speaker response is prairie flat with no peaks or dips. This makes them a great full range monitor speaker which is more what they are marketed for.
A lot of people look to the speaker to correct tone issues with an amp but a good , flat response amp doesn't need things corrected,
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Seems to me that I read somewhere that Clapton prefers the C12n to the P12n. I like them both. The "n" series from Jensen were _very_ good speakers.
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laugh all you want. Some people are not sensitive to it and others are. If you look at the celestion site for their cream speakers, the 65, 75 and alnico have almost exactly the same frequency graphs. Assuming for a second that the frequency graph is accurate and linear across a complex input (as opposed to a sine wave), what would be the point of even offering the alnico if it were to sound exactly the same as the ceramic? Originally Posted by Cavalier
The point is there are differences in tonal response that are not captured exclusively by the frequency chart.
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Right, actually try them with a flat response instrument and amp. Eminence found the magnetic structure makes more difference than the magnets themselves. Magnet tone wise a ceramic sounds more glassy than a warm compressing alnico and a good neo doesn't sound like it is there at all. I have tried the types side by side with the same full range instruments and amps so not a solution derived from the charts.
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No such thing as a flat response instrument. And I've tried them with an acoustic image clarus, quilter OD200, various fender heads, a fargen blackbird and morgan RV35A. Also, the same amps with other non neo speakers do not exhibit *ANY* nasally quality so I'm sticking with my original assessment.
Originally Posted by Cavalier
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My humbuckers are nasal. They sound great into a blackface amp. My tele sounds great through a more nasal amp. My ES-150CC really honks (in a good way) through a nasal amp.
Nasal isn't always a bad thing. Brazilian portuguese has very nasal phonetics. It's beautiful.
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Wow, how silly to lump all neo speakers together when the ceramics and alnico's get evaluated separately. There is quite a difference in different neo magnet structures.
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i didn't say it was always a bad thing. I have used neo speakers on gigs plenty of time and I never had a single complaint. However, since practice time dwarfs gig time these days, i want a speaker that sounds clear and clean like a bell and for me, that is a ceramic magnet speaker like the creamback 75. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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I use a ceramic JBL E120 in my Ampeg Gemini 1 for more volume and clarity compared to the stock Jenson. It doubled the weight of course but it can get louder with that 118 decibel efficiency.
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My '69 L-5CES through my '67 Twin Reverb w C12N's sounds anything but grainy. Fat as hell w/just a tiny bit of hair when dimed, perfect for me. Think 1960's Pat Martino.
When I got the amp 20 yrs ago one speaker was flubby sounding so I sent both speakers to Weber for reconing as I didn't want the good one to blow on a gig. It would've been a matter of time w a speaker that old.
This rig sounds amazing.
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i've heard good things about the C12K but (for the time being) I've settled on the G12H-75 creambacks.
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I like Weber alnicos, followed by Jensen alnicos. I have had ceramics Jensens and ceramic Celestions. I like Webers best.
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Favorite is tough...I like the red alnico Tone Tubby's a lot. I have that in my 65 Amps Tupelo. It came with a G12H30 that I didn't love, and I went through a few speakers before settling on the TT.
I like different speakers with different amps though. I have a Weber 12a125a in my 5e3 kit. I have another Weber in my Supersonic 22...though I can't remember the exact model.
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I laugh at your puny speakers.
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Me too have had an issue with neodymium speakers. They all sound somehow... non-alnico or non-ceramic. My ear get confused with their non-familiar behaviour. That’s conservative! Originally Posted by jzucker
Only neo speaker which does sound a bit like ’familiar’ (equals non-neodymium) has been Celestion Creamback Neo. I can’t say how does it compare to original Creamback but it sounded good. (Then I had to sell it to finance something else...).
You should try it, Jack!
Celestion Neo Creamback - 12 inch 60W Neodymium Speaker
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I really wanted to try that along with the jensen jet tornado neo but in the end, i lost so much money experimenting that I figured the creamback 75 was good enough. If I had a tube amp combo I'd consider the creamback neo for the weight savings. Originally Posted by Herbie
But the real one I want to try is the alnico cream 90 which ironically, on paper has the same freq response as the G12H-75 but in the clips sounds very different...
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JBL D130 all day
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And K130... Originally Posted by customxke
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friend of mine got his JBL D and K series reconed with a paper cone and it sounds fabulous for overdriven or clean tones. I like it better than EV
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Decades ago, I had the idea to build hi fi speakers.
I got a small paperback book on the subject. It had an explanation of the engineering issues including free air resonance of the speaker and nomographs for ported and unported designs.
It made the point that the speaker and cabinet have to be compatible with each other to get optimum sound.
That brings me to this thread. How can you talk about a favorite speaker outside of the context of the cabinet?
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