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I recently played a gig with my champ. It sounded wonderful. A few people even complimented on the tone after the show. Band had a (controlled) drummer. The volume of the champ was may be at 70% of its mostly clean capacity, no mic .
This got me thinking about ways to make the Champ usable in louder situations. One idea is an extension cab of course. But after reading about the many great reviews of Henriksen's on this site, I started wondering if micing the champ into an Henriksen would work (I don't have an Henriksen yet). My understanding is that Henriksen's come with full range hifi audio type speakers with tweeters for more faithful reproduction of sound, that's what makes them acoustic guitar/bass and voice amps (as well as electric guitar). So I guess they can also function as PA/monitor type amplifiers.
Is this a crazy idea or would it work well? Has anybody tried using a similar setup? If it can work I might consider getting an Henriksen and use it as an amp in it's own right as well as a PA for Champ (when mic'ing isn't an option in the venue) instead of getting an ext cab for Champ. 120watt Blu and a (miced into Blu) Champ together can get pretty loud.
I hear Henriksen is coming up with a new hybrid tube amp. I bet it can't beat the "Champ into Blu" tone
Last edited by Tal_175; 02-01-2019 at 06:10 PM.
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02-01-2019 02:16 PM
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What if you split your signal and run both of them at the same time. the 2 tones would probably sound great together.
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It would be easier and cheaper to just get a PA cab. I had an Henriksen with a Tweeter, and it's not flat, as a PA cab.
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Having heard Kreisberg in person playing a fender and a henriksen bud simultaneously I think this is a very very good idea.
Originally Posted by DS71
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+1. If your Champ has two inputs, it would probably work to just jumper it to the Henriksen. Originally Posted by DS71
John
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You guys have me thinking of running my Blu and my vintage Princeton through my TC electronics stereo pedal. Could be sonic bliss....
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Champ has two inputs but my understanding of his suggestion is to split the output of the guitar. One for Champ, one for Henriksen. So, the Herniksen need to have two channels in this set up. One from the champ's microphone, one directly from guitar. Originally Posted by John A.
So it would be Champ + Henriksen where Henriksen's both channels in use.Last edited by Tal_175; 02-01-2019 at 04:03 PM.
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It would work, you would own a second versatile guitar amp. But Jorge is correct, an Alto TS208 weighs about 18 lbs and costs $220 new.
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True, a plain Jane PA would be cheaper but getting a Henriksen would mean having 3 different set ups. Champ, Henriksen and Champ + Henriksen (well under 40lbs together). Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
You're probably right about Henriksen being more colored than a PA. But on the other hand Henriksen's come with very good EQ's controls on board.
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I have the new Henriksen Ten combo, and it sounds great when functioning as a monitor via the Bluetooth option. I have not yet tried it, but I would expect that using a Henriksen extension cabinet in conjunction with your Champ would give a nice, full tone, and ample volume. However, I am in agreement with jorgemg1984. A PA cab would almost certainly be cheaper, and it may give more volume as well. I got the Alto TX208 speaker for my sons electronic drum kit, and have run an acoustic guitar through it, and it sounds great! At $129 for the 208, and less than $200 for the 210 that may be worth considering.
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I'm saying that with Fender amps that have 2 inputs to the same channel, if you plug your guitar into input 1, you can plug a cable into input 2, and plug the other end of that cable into a second amp, and the second amp will get the guitar's signal as well. You don't need a splitter box. Under this scenario, the Henriksen would be amplifying the guitar's signal, not the Champ. It's not quite the same sound as micing the Champ, but it's a simple way to make your overall sound louder while maintaining some the Champ's sound blended with the Henriksen's. Originally Posted by Tal_175
John
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I didn't know that two inputs in Fender amps can function as a splitter. Good to know. Originally Posted by John A.
Yeah, many ways of blending the two to experiment with. Another option is to plug the champs' speaker out to Henriksen's speaker and treat Henriksen as an external cab. That makes of course more sense if it's the 10inch Henriksen. Champ'll get tad bit louder.
Just adding that to the mix.
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True, in the end, it's a more versatile setup. And, also, a Henriksen is much smaller and lighter than an Alto PA cab. And maybe the Bud and the Blu are flatter than the JazzAmp I had... Originally Posted by Tal_175
I would still go with a stereo setup if I used the champ and the bud, and maybe an extension cab only if I wanted to give the Champ more volume. A very efficient speaker, like a C Rex, in a decent sized cab, should make the Champ very loud.
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Yes, that could work, but just be aware of impedence matching (the speaker needs to be the same impedence of the amp or higher). My first amp was a silverface Champ back in 19 (mumble mumble). At one point I was running it through a 6 x 10" cabinet. It sounded fantastic (and loud). Originally Posted by Tal_175
John
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Yeah, Champs' output is 4ohms. Hernriksen is probably 8ohms. So Champ would work with Henriksen as a cab but it won't be as loud. I already have a similar option with my Princeton. Champ doesn't sound great with 8ohm speakers though, it needs 4ohms. Also Champ is pretty dark, it's best to pair it with bright speakers. Originally Posted by John A.
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I was thinking more like splitting the signal with a splitter or even a stereo pedal and blending each of the amps, letting them each do their thing. Originally Posted by John A.
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i’ve split My guitar between my vibrochamp and my Roland orange cube. I voiced my VC with some hair and emphasized the treble and the cube to be clean and bassier.
It sounded great- very full.
Now I wonder why I don’t do that more often.
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A Champ in the break up zone mixed with a clean SS amp. Lightly overdriven warmth without compromising clarity.
Is this the secret dumble formula?
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+1
Originally Posted by Tal_175
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+1
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Your Champ, what version is it? BF, SF .....
Originally Posted by Tal_175
I recently played a gig with my champ. It sounded wonderful. A few people even complimented on the tone after the show. Band had a (controlled) drummer. The volume of the champ was may be at 70% of its mostly clean capacity, no mic .
This got me thinking about ways to make the Champ usable in louder situations. One idea is an extension cab of course. But after reading about the many great reviews of Henriksen's on this site, I started wondering if micing the champ into an Henriksen would work (I don't have an Henriksen yet). My understanding is that Henriksen's come with full range hifi audio type speakers with tweeters for more faithful reproduction of sound, that's what makes them acoustic guitar/bass and voice amps (as well as electric guitar). So I guess they can also function as PA/monitor type amplifiers.
Is this a crazy idea or would it work well? Has anybody tried using a similar setup? If it can work I might consider getting an Henriksen and use it as an amp in it's own right as well as a PA for Champ (when mic'ing isn't an option in the venue) instead of getting an ext cab for Champ. 120watt Blu and a (miced in to Blu) Champ together can get pretty loud.
I hear Henriksen is coming up with a new hybrid tube amp. I bet it can't beat "Champ into Blu" tone
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'57 Custom Champ. Originally Posted by Wildcat
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jumpering does the same thing as a splitter. Originally Posted by DS71
Stereo reverb or chorus is a good way to go, too.
John
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Just to back up your advice, here’s a typical schematic of the Fender input jacks. I’ve deleted the ground switches since they are disengaged when both jacks are in use. Originally Posted by John A.
Since the grid impedance is very high (~5M?) and the resister to ground is also high (1M), the two 68K resistors don’t attenuate much and you essentially have a direct connection between the two jacks.
However, you need to be a little more careful about instrument cable length and capacitance when you do this, since the capacitance of both cables will be across the pickup. Too much capacitance can roll off some highs. If this were a problem, adding a pedal with a buffer just before or just after the Champ would eliminate the effects of any cable capacitance beyond that point. This could simply be an EQ pedal, set flat.
I often use two small amps for larger venues or louder bands. But I usually do this with solid state amps that have effects loops. I’ll use a Y-adapter with three 1/4 inch jacks connected to the effects send and return of the main amp (the one I’m plugged into) and the effects return of the slave amp. This sends the preamp signal from the main amp to the power sections of both amps. On my amps, the channel volume circuit comes before the effects loop, but the master volume, tone control and reverb circuits are after the effects loop. This allows me to plug into one amp but tailor the volume, EQ, and reverb of each amp.
When you run through two amps it’s a good idea to confirm that they are in phase with each other. There was another recent thread on how to hear when two amps are in vs. out of phase.Last edited by KirkP; 02-02-2019 at 02:27 PM.
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Small tube amp plus solid state works great! I use one of these to split the guitar signal without losses/hum/phase cancellation:
LEHLE
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