-
The helmet-head SVT, V4, VT-22, V-2, VT-40 and GU-12 were completely new designs for Ampeg at the time and very different in most respects from previous Ampeg designs. These have the most dense and complex circuit designs, IMO. But pro toaster techs should know what they are doing, so it's no big deal to work on them.
Originally Posted by GregMath
The helmet-head Reverbojet, Reverbrocket III, G-12, B-25, Jupiter 22/B-22X, V-3, various Portaflex models, etc., are old circuits in new boxes, re-engineered from tagboards onto PCBs. There is significant similarity between and their blue check predecessors, offset by these physical changes. Dead easy to work on IMO, given the gigantic traces on their "Flintstones" PCBs.
Anything before the transitional "Golden Glo" Ampegs has old-school tagboards (except for the B-15N from '65), which are dead easy to work on IMO.
Within any given era, I generally find different Ampegs sound quite similar because their circuits are quite similar, tone stacks are quite similar, compensating for speaker configurations, cab designs (open back, ported, sealed), ss vs. tube rectification. What changes is their power/feature set/weight.Last edited by Hammertone; 02-02-2019 at 11:04 PM.
-
02-02-2019 03:56 AM
-
I saw 46 lbs somewhere on line for the Super. Originally Posted by Hammertone
Glad to hear that about the reverb tank. How do you know which one to get to duplicate the original sound? Looks like there are a lot of tanks available.
-
46 pounds in not heavy for a 2x12" combo amp, IMO.
I'm sure that Fliptops or any Ampeg-familiar repair person/shop has the information about which reverb tanks are correct for which amps. My amp repair guru (John Fletcher in Toronto) has done it for me.Last edited by Hammertone; 02-04-2019 at 12:17 AM.
-
An interesting discussion so far. The OP's point - why aren't old ampegs more popular? - must be becoming more apparent by now, and I'd say part of the answer is because they're very different from fenders, and rightly or wrongly, the fender =type approach now dominates the jazz tube amp niche. There aren't too many ampeg clones being made out there by boutique builders.
It's not just about the obsolete tubes, it's partly about the circuit design; ampeg pioneeered baxandall ( flat) tone stacks for guitar amps, they used an entirely different tube bias system ( which is not as reliable), they used capacitor-driven reverb, that sounds very good but which requires an unusual specification of reverb tank, the can caps, and so on. Many disgreed with my point that they are are more difficult to service than fenders, but early ampegs really are- the circuits are more cramped, the wiring traces less obvious. Just try and rebuild one yourself..The same applies to Gibson amps, which didn't do well in the market.
So in a sense, ampeg simply got left behind because fender amps looked so good and were so well designed, and people liked the sound, that fenders came the default, and a view of apparent ampeg unserviceability developed amongst amonst techs, and certainly amongst tech reference book writers, who advised not to touch them. The obsolete tube aspects added to this. Not to overdo it, but even these days the ( successful) SVT bass amps are still regarded as a serviceman's nightmare, with their stacked circuit boards that all have to be taken out for service. Fender realised that a reputation for easy serviceabilty was an important part of the marketing recipe, and he got that right, as evidenced by 60s (eg) DR prices today.
Fender amps are arguably less suitable for jazz, with their midrange dip, than Ampegs, and the 7591 tube sounds better than any 6V6 or 6L6, but design for easy serviceabilty, sharp cosmetics, and comparative reliability won the day.
All good news for anyone who wants to pick up an old reverberocket cheaply and fix it up
-
Just teasing Stephen.
Jazzica and the amp, nice!
Originally Posted by Hammertone
-
46 lbs. Wow not bad at all.
Originally Posted by Hammertone
-
i think it comes down to portability, difficulty of servicing, and fragility...
i had a couple of the old reverbrockets from the 60s, and they were not gigging amps... they sounded good, but to me they didn't get a great jazz tone, they were really good for 50s rock/rockabilly type stuff (why i sold them)
the value is great though
-
I own a Reverberocket 2 (early 1970s I believe) and will respectfully disagree with a few earlier posts (but this model changed many times during its existence):
1) Someone said ~30 lbs. Mine is in a cab that is a bit smaller than a Twin Reverb and weighs 47lbs (with a very lightweight Weber 12A125 speaker). So, my biggest complaint is portability.
2) IMO, mine gets an awesome jazz guitar tone. I think earlier models, with octal preamp tubes and 6V6s are favored by the rock/rockabilly players.
-
I have a couple of reactions to this post. Mine are completely subjective, based on my own experience with Ampeg and living through the entire era. Originally Posted by Franz 1997
An interesting discussion so far. The OP's point - why aren't old ampegs more popular? - must be becoming more apparent by now, and I'd say part of the answer is because they're very different from fenders, and rightly or wrongly, the fender =type approach now dominates the jazz tube amp niche. There aren't too many ampeg clones being made out there by boutique builders.
It's not just about the obsolete tubes, it's partly about the circuit design; ampeg pioneeered baxandall ( flat) tone stacks for guitar amps, they used an entirely different tube bias system ( which is not as reliable), they used capacitor-driven reverb, that sounds very good but which requires an unusual specification of reverb tank, the can caps, and so on. Many disgreed with my point that they are are more difficult to service than fenders, but early ampegs really are- the circuits are more cramped, the wiring traces less obvious. Just try and rebuild one yourself..The same applies to Gibson amps, which didn't do well in the market.
So in a sense, ampeg simply got left behind because fender amps looked so good and were so well designed, and people liked the sound, that fenders came the default, and a view of apparent ampeg unserviceability developed amongst amonst techs, and certainly amongst tech reference book writers, who advised not to touch them. The obsolete tube aspects added to this. Not to overdo it, but even these days the ( successful) SVT bass amps are still regarded as a serviceman's nightmare, with their stacked circuit boards that all have to be taken out for service. Fender realised that a reputation for easy serviceabilty was an important part of the marketing recipe, and he got that right, as evidenced by 60s (eg) DR prices today.
Fender amps are arguably less suitable for jazz, with their midrange dip, than Ampegs, and the 7591 tube sounds better than any 6V6 or 6L6, but design for easy serviceabilty, sharp cosmetics, and comparative reliability won the day. All good news for anyone who wants to pick up an old reverberocket cheaply and fix it up
My 64 Reverberocket required no repairs of any kind for about 35 years. Still had the original tubes and had never been worked on. At that point, it needed a cap job, which is to be expected. I had trouble thereafter, which turned out to be a subtle lack of contact into the jack entering the reverb tank. Probably my fault, because at some point I tried to use that tank for something else. In the course of diagnosing that problem, I got all new tubes -- and I had some problems with them.
My point is that the amp, as built, was incredibly reliable.
When, the amp finally did need service, I never heard a service person complain about it. I did hear one complain that the GA Gibsons were not well made.
So, why, then weren't Ampegs more popular? My guess is that it had to do with marketing, which major players chose them, availability and things missing from the product line that rock musicians liked. Also, sound -- a lot of people really like Fender. Hull, the owner reportedly didn't respect rock musicians and didn't market to them. Oddly enough, some major rock groups did use Ampeg (most prominently, the Stones) but somehow that didn't propel the market, maybe because Ampeg didn't tout them.
Back in the day, Fender put out a glossy, multipage catalog that was ubiquitous. I do not recall seeing an Ampeg equivalent.
Fender had a full line of amps, going up to the Dual Showman, for example, which were very loud. Ampeg didn't compete with that.
Fender stayed in business with Leo at the helm well past when Ampeg was sold iirc. Maybe better vision, better management.
But, we're asking, in a way, why aren't Ampegs as popular now? In fact, in NYC they were plenty popular then. I knew lots of people with Ampegs and only one guy with a Fender. I think Ampegs may have been cheaper for the same level of power, and sounded good.
I recall that when I was 14, I went to the original Sam Ash store to try amps. I recall trying a Gibson GA something, but thinking the Ampeg sounded better. I paid $120 for the Ampeg at Silver and Horland on Park Row. I had to pay my Dad half of all my gig money until it was paid off. I found out years later that he made about $100/week back then, so it was a big purchase for our family.
But now, none of the greats we admire choose Ampeg. Since they don't seem to be too hard to service and since all the tubes and caps are available, I don't think it's an engineering issue. I think it's a sound issue.
The guys we tended to admire (not counting, apparently, the NYC Guitar Club) didn't use Ampegs much, to my knowledge. So, there's cachet and there's sound. Also, Fender made a great product, so there was real competition. When you think of Joe Pass, you associate him with Polytone -- not necessarily because he used them (which he did) but because his use was in so many ads. Wes is associated with Standels and Fenders. But, a zillion records used those NYC guitar club Ampegs, and most guitar players probably don't know who played them or on which songs. Here's one: Bloomfield with Dylan.
Perhaps another issue: my Reverberocket has a treble cut control only. The Jet was the same. The Princeton of the era (12 watts to the Ampeg's 18) had bass and treble. That may not have made as much difference to an early 60s jazz player as it did later.
So, I think all of that feeds into the current circumstance which seems to be that players will spend a couple of thousand to get a modern amp while ignoring old Ampegs at a third the price.Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 02-02-2019 at 06:10 PM.
-
My experience is limited, but the ones I played didn't sound like anything special tbh. And contrary to some posts, any Ampeg i ever came across was the heaviest mofo amp around! Very heavy and bulky. I don't see how anyone in NYC would use them. Definitely not these days! When there is so much choice with portable amps, tubes or not.
-
The old reverberocket is about 30 lbs for 18 watts. I believe the jet was 24lbs. The working jazz players I knew used the Jet with a JBL speaker. I'm guessing that the JBL would have been heavier than the stock speaker. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
The reissue Reverberockets had 50 watts and were much heavier than the original.
I no longer get to NYC that often, but I always hit a few clubs when I go. I've seen the AER Compact 60, Bud, a small-to-medium size Fuchs (Vic Juris) and some other small amps. I'm assuming that the guitarists may be taking the subway at times and need something they can carry. I heard that Joe Giglio gigged with a Lunchbox at one point; don't know if he does any more. The Seasons Guitar Quartet toured with a Lunchbox each (that's J. Lage, L. Koonse, A. Wilson and C. Pinheiro).
-
I’m glad they aren’t as popular as they deserve to be! Their lack of a fan base here was the only reason I was able to pick up a vintage Reverberocket on the cheap. The owner posted a price and I lowballed him because the wrapping was coming off and he said maybe if it doesn’t sell in a few months. People aren’t clamoring for them here and the months went by, eventually leading him to email and ask if I was still interested.
I was. ;-)
-
The fact that they aren't popular has very little to do with the amps. The amps are great. Guitar players are, for the most part, ignorant sheep. They simply don't know that this stuff exists, don't do any homework, and follow the crowd. It's that simple. There was a time when the information and the amps were harder to find. But that was 25 years ago. The internet has changed all of that, and there is no shortage of excellent blue check Ampeg combos out there.
Last edited by Hammertone; 02-04-2019 at 12:15 AM.
-
That rings pretty true. I disregarded them my whole playing life because they weren’t one of the big names my heroes used until I went to a meetup of guitarists and there wasn’t one that everyone plugged into to play a short set. It was the default map and it changed my mind about the brand entirely.
Reply With Quote
Recommandations for Hollowbodies for $600 and under?
Today, 05:20 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos