Any Lab Series Amp Historians?

**Bigsbyguy** · 01-30-2019, 05:04 PM

I'm looking at a couple Lab Series amps. One has a black control plate and 1 has a bronze colored plate. Anyone know which is earlier? Is there a way to tell which ones are the later ones made by Garnet and the earlier production?

**GNAPPI** · 01-30-2019, 05:08 PM

There has been one for sale nearby for a long time. Maybe his verbiage will help pinpoint some things for you.

EDIT: Owner changed the listing

Lab Series L5 rare guitar amplifier. BB King - musical instruments - by owner - sale

**MarcoSolo** · 01-31-2019, 10:58 AM

Cosmetics

The only cosmetic difference within a single model was that the faceplate was offered in two styles, black and copper. This was purely a cosmetic option and does not indicate year of manufacture, export vs. domestic versions, or anything else. Both styles were available for the entire Lab Series run.
https://aionelectronics.com/project/l5-preamp/

I've had two - an L5 and an L7 - and another that blew up the first time I switched it on. For the price I see them go for, $250 - $400, I don't know how you can beat them as long as they work. The only downside is they are beastly heavy.

**va3ux** · 01-31-2019, 07:54 PM

Lab Series made by Garnet ? The Canadian Garnet amp company ? I've never heard of the Lab amps being made by anyone other than original Moog crew over in Buffalo, NY.

PS. I have a cosmetically very-rough L9 if anyone is interested.

**icr** · 01-31-2019, 09:07 PM

My first guitar amp was an L3. I got it slightly used back in 1980, rock mostly. Since it did not have switching I sold it for a Fender Twin and pedals (the L3 did not sound good with distortion pedals).
Funny thing is by 1983 I was in to Gang Of Four and Andy Gill (solid state!) was my favorite at that time.

**jschiele** · 02-01-2019, 09:10 AM

All of the Lab Series amps were made as black panels when new and some of them faded to the copper color as they aged. I used to own a L2 head which spent many years being stored in my garage, the panel and chassis started out black and turned to copper over the years. Great amp by the way, was made for bass but worked as well for guitar with a sweepable mids control that was really effective.

Jonathan

**Jimmy Mack** · 02-01-2019, 10:51 PM

I'll have to ask my friend, in Buffalo, who worked at MOOG, developing the L5.

**Bigsbyguy** · 02-06-2019, 02:26 PM

Thanks for all the replies. Looking at Google images it does seem the panels were copper colored and not faded from black. From what I've gathered there were 2 series the latter being made by Garnet in Canada. I'd prefer the earlier version. I'm guessing the best way to determine that would be to use the speaker date codes. I see codes from the late 70's 77-79, and I'm guessing they are the earlier versions.
Jimmy Mack, if you could ask your former Moog employee about them I'd really appreciate it. Ask him about a schematic too.
They're not expensive, there's an L5 for 250 and a couple L7's in the 3-350 range. I think I'll go with the L7.
I've read stories of them being had for as little as 100.

**Greentone** · 02-06-2019, 04:20 PM

I have an L5. Really nice amp. I believe they were black panel before they were brown panel, no?

**jschiele** · 02-06-2019, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Bigsbyguy

Looking at Google images it does seem the panels were copper colored and not faded from black.

Bigsbyguy - I'm not sure which google images you're looking at which make you so sure there were two series...

When I do a google search for images of Lab Series amps I see two colors: Black panel like my Lab Series L2 was when I bought it and copper colored panel like my very same amp was when I sold it years later.

Here's an example of the copper color: Access to this page has been denied.

Here's a rear view of a similarly faded to copper chassis: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-NSbAa-8aH4/hqdefault.jpg

Bigsbyguy, is this the color you're looking at? I don't know know what the process is that causes the black to fade to that copper color but it doesn't effect only amps! It also occurred to a formerly black mat-cutter that I use for cutting mat boards when I frame photographs.

Jonathan

**Bigsbyguy** · 02-06-2019, 07:56 PM

It sure looks like that's white ink printed on a copper back ground but if your's faded then it happens. I'm not concerned with the color really, just want to try and be an informed buyer and figure out some of the production history.

**wzpgsr** · 02-06-2019, 10:03 PM

I think the Garnet-made amps specifically had a Lab Series 2 logo. Don’t know if they shared anything else in common with the originals besides the name, but I do know that my L5 was a great amp. I found it by scouring Craigslist nationwide and got the guy to ship it to me cross-country for something like $300 all in. I went through a SS period a few years ago and went through the Lab Series L5, the Pearce G2R, and couple Yamaha G-series mkii. All great amps, but the fundamental tone of the Lab Series was something special.

**Greentone** · 02-06-2019, 11:35 PM

IIRC, the 70s amps were screened black/white on the panels and the 80s amps were screened copper/white.

**GNAPPI** · 02-07-2019, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by Bigsbyguy

>>SNIP<<Ask him about a schematic too.

I have lab series schematics. PM me if you don't get them.

**Greentone** · 02-07-2019, 02:06 PM

I've checked pictures/serial numbers on the Internet. The black panel Lab Series Amps made by Moog for Norlin/Gibson are definitely older than the copper panel Lab Series Amps made by Moog for Norlin/Gibson. Serial numbers for the "blackies" run from the 000s to about the 2000s, or so. The ones I've seen with copper panels are in the 5000-6000 serial number range.

I know that the older ones feature CTS speakers, like Polytone and Ampeg amps. I am less sure about the newer ones, but IIRC they also have CTS speakers.

They are great amps, one and all.

**BGood** · 08-05-2019, 09:05 PM

It's in top shape except for a few nicks on the Tolex. Was wicked dirty, but after a few hours of scrubbing, it came out nice. Only the clean channel volume pot needed to be cleaned, crackled a bit, fine now.

No need to describe its tone, you all know what it's about

Most everything seem original on it. I think the seller had bought it new. I should ask him. Anybody saw one with square magnet speakers ? Is it of the old ones ?

I made a detailed photo album of it.
LAB Series L5 — Postimage.org

**Greentone** · 08-06-2019, 10:40 AM

The square magnet speakers are CTS...original equipment for Lab Series. Great speakers.

**Spook410** · 08-06-2019, 04:30 PM

My L5 amp has been sitting in a safe place in the garage for some time. Decided to get it out and play with it a bit. Upon powering up it generated a 100W squeal that the dogs are still glaring at me over. Unfortunately it had to go to the landfill. Kind of sad.. it was a good amp over the years.

**jads57** · 08-06-2019, 06:13 PM

These amps always seemed a bit stiff sounding,for lack of a better description. Country guitarists loved them for the Clean headroom as well as built in Compression. I actually preferred Music Man Amps to these for loud Clean tones.

Nowadays with high powered smaller amps available like Quilter,etc. These are pretty much outdated dinasour. But that's just my take and you might feel entirely different.