Polytone Baby Brute vs DV Mark Little Jazz vs Monoprice (Guitar Amps Comparison)

**deacon Mark** · 01-29-2019, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

A T7 is a phase inverter tube and has the wrong plate voltage for V2. For a little 15w amp try a 5751 or 7025 in V1 and or V2. Way more musical. A Y7 in V1 in a small amp doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You are basically making it a 8w amp. A T7 is used for V3 or for reverb. Yes I know Fender uses a T7 in V1 of a GB HRD but it isn't right. Y7's sound one dimensional to me. Lawson buy a NOS Jan 5751 and put it in V1. You will be amazed and very sonically pleased. A TAD 7025 would be my 2nd recommendation followed by a TAD 5751.

BTW.....GREAT guitar playing Sir.

Vinny I could translate Russian easier than figuring out what you wrote and I don’t speak Russian. What does it mean?

**vinnyv1k** · 01-29-2019, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by deacon Mark

Vinny I could translate Russian easier than figuring out what you wrote and I don’t speak Russian. What does it mean?

Basically he is using the wrong tubes.

V1 use a 12AX7, 5751, 7025, 12AY7. a 12YA7 is too weak for 15w IMO.
V2 same as above
V3 12AT7 MUST have balanced triodes.

V1 V2 V3 are your preamp tubes. V3 is the phase inverter tube that sends the juice to your power tubes.

**lawson-stone** · 01-29-2019, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

A T7 is a phase inverter tube and has the wrong plate voltage for V2. For a little 15w amp try a 5751 or 7025 in V1 and or V2. Way more musical. A Y7 in V1 in a small amp doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You are basically making it a 8w amp. A T7 is used for V3 or for reverb. Yes I know Fender uses a T7 in V1 of a GB HRD but it isn't right. Y7's sound one dimensional to me. Lawson buy a NOS Jan 5751 and put it in V1. You will be amazed and very sonically pleased. A TAD 7025 would be my 2nd recommendation followed by a TAD 5751.

BTW.....GREAT guitar playing Sir.

Thank you so much, Vinny, for the info here. I swapped V1 mainly because the amp was breaking up a bit too soon for my tastes, and so I was dropping the gain a bit. I can't afford to put a $90 tube in a $200 amp, but I TAD 5751 seems perhaps a bit more realistic a purchase for this amp. I actually did think that with the AT7 and AY7 even though I got the headroom I wanted, the tone did seem to flatten out some. And while I want clean, I want tubes because I like my "clean" to be "thick."

Thanks always for your perspective and advice!

**Klatu** · 01-29-2019, 07:40 PM

Another vote for #2. The sonic detail is in "high def".

**Engine Swap** · 01-29-2019, 09:57 PM

**lawson-stone** · 01-29-2019, 10:24 PM

Okay, so it has been about 12 hours... here's the line-up of amps:

#1 is the Polytone Baby Brute Open Back. It sounds phenomenal live, but maybe sitting on the floor on a carpet isn't the best place to record it...

#2 is the Monoprice 15 Watter, and the one most of you liked best and nobody panned as worst. Even with my not-so-amazing tube swaps I like how this amp sounds. 3 12AX7 preamp tubes, 2 EL84 power amp tubes, spring reverb, it really has a lot to offer the superficial tubist like me!

#3 is the DVMark Little Jazz, which is a solid performer all the time.

And yes there is a buzz coming from somewhere. Gotta figure that out...

Thanks all for the fun!

**wengr** · 01-29-2019, 11:32 PM

Tube rattle?

**lawson-stone** · 01-30-2019, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by wengr

Tube rattle?

I don't think so. It sounds like some kind of interference. There is a LOT of electronic and wireless stuff in the building where my office, and this gear, are located.

**sgosnell** · 01-30-2019, 12:31 AM

Computers emit huge amounts of electromagnetic energy. With the right equipment, you can monitor a computer from across the street. Wifi routers, cellphones, bluetooth devices, all sorts of things emit radiation all over the place. Put a bunch of them in the same place, or near each other, and interference is almost guaranteed. Plus there are the things on the wall that can rattle, including other guitars. The number of things that can cause buzzing and noise is not infinite, but it is uncountable.

**KirkP** · 01-30-2019, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

V3 12AT7 MUST have balanced triodes.

That part is debatable. The long tailed phase inverter is inherently imbalanced anyway, and I’ve read that a bit of imbalance in the inverter tubes isn’t all that noticeable. A balanced 12AT7 isn’t much more expensive so I always have used them, but it’s not something I’d worry much about. Balancing the output tubes is more important.

**KirkP** · 01-30-2019, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I don't think so. It sounds like some kind of interference. There is a LOT of electronic and wireless stuff in the building where my office, and this gear, are located.

If it was interference it wouldn’t be affected by what you are playing. I only hear it when certain notes are played at peak volumes, which is why I suspect it’s due to something saturating. It’s a much more abrupt transition from clean to distorted than I’d expect to hear from tubes or transistors, which is why I suspect it’s in the digital signal chain. And every time I’ve encountered that type of distortion it was solved by reducing the signal to the digital chain.

**Hep To The Jive** · 01-30-2019, 01:58 AM

All right, well, I knew the tube sound was the most natural and the most appealing to my ears. It's good to know there are some very reasonably priced tube amps out there that sound good for jazz.

DV Mark was surprisingly good too!

Polytone, though, well, it only confirmed my pre existing bias toward it, the type of tone I can't relate to. But it's just me.

Anyway, thanks for fun, Lawson, and great playing!

**lawson-stone** · 01-30-2019, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by KirkP

If it was interference it wouldn’t be affected by what you are playing. I only hear it when certain notes are played at peak volumes, which is why I suspect it’s due to something saturating. It’s a much more abrupt transition from clean to distorted than I’d expect to hear from tubes or transistors, which is why I suspect it’s in the digital signal chain. And every time I’ve encountered that type of distortion it was solved by reducing the signal to the digital chain.

AH yes, I get what you're talking about now. It's either something in the signal chain or a very peculiar resonant rattle that is triggered by certain pitches or dynamics. I am betting on the former. I tend to record a little too hot sometimes, and likely that is the problem. So much also goes with microphone placement. Thanks for your careful listening!

**EarlBrother** · 01-30-2019, 06:49 AM

Because of the insight ive read here over the years on this site.I guessed Poly,Mono,DV seconds after hearing them.That was fun thanks!

**lawson-stone** · 01-30-2019, 07:14 AM

So while I have you guys on the line here... the power tubes of my cheap-o amp are EL84's which I have done nothing with, mainly because I pretty much like the sound, given the investment i've made in the amp. But if a better tube would substantially improve matters, I'd play with those EL84's.

Any suggestions on that front?

**EarlBrother** · 01-30-2019, 07:47 AM

sorry technotardo here.But side note i just reread your article on Joe Pass in my delapdated JJG mag.Man i wish i would've kept in a sleeve.Still inspiring.

**lawson-stone** · 01-30-2019, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by EarlBrother

sorry technotardo here.But side note i just reread your article on Joe Pass in my delapdated JJG mag.Man i wish i would've kept in a sleeve.Still inspiring.

Thanks! That was a wonderful and unexpected turn of events in my life.

**Max405** · 01-30-2019, 10:17 AM

Lawson,
I loved this! 1st, Outstanding playing buddy! You are a Tiger!
Now, although I preferred the sound of #1, knowing a little about that particular guitar (it looks great in your very capable hands..), I think #2 projects the true sound of the guitar best. So, I'd have to go with #2. I am sure if you demo'd your wonderful L5, #2 would sound a bit more like #1 did.
Thanks for having fun with us Lawson. I enjoy your videos alot. You always do something nice for us. We get entertained and we learn something..
Joe D.

**lawson-stone** · 01-30-2019, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Max405

Lawson,
I loved this! 1st, Outstanding playing buddy! You are a Tiger!
Now, although I preferred the sound of #1, knowing a little about that particular guitar (it looks great in your very capable hands..), I think #2 projects the true sound of the guitar best. So, I'd have to go with #2. I am sure if you demo'd your wonderful L5, #2 would sound a bit more like #1 did.
Thanks for having fun with us Lawson. I enjoy your videos alot. You always do something nice for us. We get entertained and we learn something..
Joe D.

Thanks Joe. My goal is to play more, play for others (learning from their reactions) and to learn more about how to use this gear to get the best and most musical sound.

Learning Jimmy Raney's example solos in the Aebersold Vol. 20 book was one of the best learning moves I ever made. Ever.

**vintagelove** · 01-30-2019, 11:20 AM

Preferred 1, obviously I’m a polytone junkie.

2, IMO, too bright. Lots of things can be done to fix that.

3 in the middle.

I just like dark fat sounds.

**wengr** · 01-30-2019, 11:28 AM

It seems to me that the issue with #1 is quite different than with #2. With #1 I hear distortion when you dig in. The more you dig in, the more distortion I hear.
But with the tube amp I hear a buzz with pretty much every single note, in addition to a nice clean note.

I did not post my guesses here, but I was assuming them correctly (I know - easy to say after the fact), but the tube amp is pretty obvious, and I have a DV Mark, so I'm familiar.
And I'm glad I'm right because I claimed up front that #3 was my favorite, and I already have that one, so I enjoyed the thread and I'm not compelled to buy anything. That's pretty rare!

**pilotony** · 01-30-2019, 08:43 PM

Thanks for posting and thanks for all the prep work in setting up this comparison, Lawson.

Your playing is first rate with smooth transitions between neck positions and excellent tone. I liked #3 and was surprised when I learned it was the DV Mark. The Polytone Mini Brain sounds a lot like the 40 year old Mini Brute I've been using, primarily as a "den amp" since 1979.

We've been in the same house for many years and recently re-modeled the first floor. We eliminated the drapes, and the wall-to-wall carpet was replaced with porcelain floor tile. Everything now sounds differently--with a slightly natural reverb and an overall brighter tone. In addition to the Mini Brute I occasionally play through a Fender Twin reissue that is about 10 years old which is now much louder and crisper than it ever was. I understand the physics involved but the realty of this new sound will take some getting used to.

Tony D.

**citizenk74** · 01-30-2019, 08:46 PM

That was fun, Lawson. Thank you for sharing this.

For what it's worth, my initial guesstimates turned out to be correct. Sheer luck, I'm sure. Stopped clock and all that.

You've got a trio of tone monsters. Small amps can be wonderful!

**Jim Soloway** · 01-30-2019, 08:48 PM

My preference was 3, 1, 2 but then I'm basically an electric player and to me those had the most electric tone.

**p1p** · 02-01-2019, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

So while I have you guys on the line here... the power tubes of my cheap-o amp are EL84's which I have done nothing with, mainly because I pretty much like the sound, given the investment i've made in the amp. But if a better tube would substantially improve matters, I'd play with those EL84's.

Any suggestions on that front?

My preference was #2 by far, followed by 3 then 1.

I like EL84s personally, so I wouldn't change a thing. Is that a Laney cub?