Fender Super Champ X2: Tube Swapping

**Doug B** · 01-10-2019, 09:12 PM

I have a Super Champ X2 tube amp with a 12AX7 preamp tube plus two 6v6 tubes. While I can already get a nice clean sound for bebop/mainstream jazz sounds; I was wondering if I could get even more of a warm clean sound.

I know that the 12AX7 can be changed for other tubes such as AY7/AT7/AU7, etc. But difference would I notice (if any) by changing tubes?

Thanks

Doug

**medblues** · 01-10-2019, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by Doug B

I have a Super Champ X2 tube amp with a 12AX7 preamp tube plus two 6v6 tubes. While I can already get a nice clean sound for bebop/mainstream jazz sounds; I was wondering if I could get an even more warm clean sound.

I know that the 12AX7 can be changed for other tubes such as AY7/AT7/AU7, etc. But difference would I notice (if any) by changing tubes?

Thanks

Doug

The 12AX7 in SCX2 is a phase inverter the preamp tone comes from a DSP chip. My guess is changing the 12AX7 probably will not change the tone much but it also shouldn't hurt trying.

The warmth would come more from increasing the mids by using the Fuse software through your computer and/or using EQ, tube preamp or a pedal such as TC Electronic Mojomojo.

**Doug B** · 01-10-2019, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by medblues

The 12AX7 in SCX2 is a phase inverter the preamp tone comes from a DSP chip. My guess is changing the 12AX7 probably will not change the tone much but it also shouldn't hurt trying.

The warmth would come more from increasing the mids by using the Fuse software through your computer and/or using EQ, tube preamp or a pedal such as TC Electronic Mojomojo.

Thanks. I never knew that I could use the Fuse software. Fender doesn't even mention it in the owner's manual!

Doug

**medblues** · 01-11-2019, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by Doug B

Thanks. I never knew that I could use the Fuse software. Fender doesn't even mention it in the owner's manual!

Doug

It works really well. I increased the mids in Channel 1 a little and kept it Fendery but warmer. In Channel 2, you can reassign all 16 of the presets to what you would like. There is high headroom Jazzmaster model that you may find useful. I have a high efficiency 2x12 cab, through it the SCX2 head sounds pretty close with the 65 Twin model. I left the two Princeton presets (clean and dirty) intact.

**marcwhy** · 01-11-2019, 08:45 AM

A 5751 or 7025 in V1 should give more clean headroom (say the tech guys). I've been using a TAD 7025, and like it in my 6V6 amp.

**Longways to Go** · 01-11-2019, 11:59 AM

I don't think tube swapping will accomplish much of anything in the SCX2.
It's got a solid state/modelling front end.

**lawson-stone** · 01-11-2019, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Doug B

Thanks. I never knew that I could use the Fuse software. Fender doesn't even mention it in the owner's manual!

Doug

Page 7 under "USB"

**lawson-stone** · 01-11-2019, 12:08 PM

I doubt whether changing the 12AX7 tube would do much since it's not a traditional tube pre-amp. The 6V6 tubes might be replaced with something, I don't know.

I have the SuperChamp X2 head. I've liked it, but came to realize I'm not really getting the full tube experience out of it. Might sell it. It's actually a pretty good head, thought, and sounds good through the right cabinet.

**Doug B** · 01-11-2019, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by medblues

It works really well. I increased the mids in Channel 1 a little and kept it Fendery but warmer. In Channel 2, you can reassign all 16 of the presets to what you would like. There is high headroom Jazzmaster model that you may find useful. I have a high efficiency 2x12 cab, through it the SCX2 head sounds pretty close with the 65 Twin model. I left the two Princeton presets (clean and dirty) intact.

Thanks again for all the info.

However, I bet you're using Win10? I only have win7 as I mostly use Linux and hardly use win7 at all.

Fuse does not install on win 7 for me.

**Doug B** · 01-11-2019, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Page 7 under "USB"

Not on my manual. Under USB, it says:"USB-Use the USB port to connect the Super Champ X2 amplifier to your computer and stream audio to your favorite recording software." Doesn't say anything about Fuse.

**medblues** · 01-11-2019, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Doug B

Not on my manual. Under USB, it says:"USB-Use the USB port to connect the Super Champ X2 amplifier to your computer and stream audio to your favorite recording software." Doesn't say anything about Fuse.

I have a Mac. Check these links below and see if they help:

https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/O...amp_manual.pdf

Fender(R) FUSE™ | Super Champ™ X2

**Doug B** · 01-11-2019, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by marcwhy

A 5751 or 7025 in V1 should give more clean headroom (say the tech guys). I've been using a TAD 7025, and like it in my 6V6 amp.

Further up, Medblues said:"The 12AX7 in SCX2 is a phase inverter" and not a preamp tube.

??????

**Sam Sherry** · 01-11-2019, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Doug B

Further up, Medblues said:"The 12AX7 in SCX2 is a phase inverter" and not a preamp tube.

??????

The signal in the SC XD/X2 begins with a solid-state preamp stage, passes through the digital effects chip (yes, both the 'clean' and 'effects' channels go through the chip), proceeds for more solid-state treatment and then heads into a 12AX7. The first triode is a non-adjustable preamp stage and the second triode is a cathodyne phase inverter.

So although it's not inaccurate to say that the SC XD/X2 has a mixed solid/digital/tube preamp, the fundamental tone (including any distortion) comes fully-formed from the solid/digital stages.

Based on that I wouldn't put much stock in efforts to change the SC XD/X2 tone by preamp tube rolling. Switching to a lower-gain tube should yield . . . lower gain, but no fundamental tonal change. But YMMV -- have at it if you want to.

**lawson-stone** · 01-11-2019, 03:55 PM

Would there be any point in playing around with the 6V6 output tubes? Just curious.

**Doug B** · 01-11-2019, 04:18 PM

Thanks for the more complete explanation. I'm starting to think that I'd rather spend my time practising and playing music rather than getting all techy with little benefit. I may eventually upgrade my Win7 to W10 so that I can use the Fuse software, but I am really not looking forward to installing bloody Windows.

It's not like I can't get some rather nice clean sounds out of the Champ.

Cheers,

Doug

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

The signal in the SC XD/X2 begins with a solid-state preamp stage, passes through the digital effects chip (yes, both the 'clean' and 'effects' channels go through the chip), proceeds for more solid-state treatment and then heads into a 12AX7. The first triode is a non-adjustable preamp stage and the second triode is a cathodyne phase inverter.

So although it's not inaccurate to say that the SC XD/X2 has a mixed solid/digital/tube preamp, the fundamental tone (including any distortion) comes fully-formed from the solid/digital stages.

Based on that I wouldn't put much stock in efforts to change the SC XD/X2 tone by preamp tube rolling. Switching to a lower-gain tube should yield . . . lower gain, but no fundamental tonal change. But YMMV -- have at it if you want to.

**Doug B** · 01-11-2019, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Would there be any point in playing around with the 6V6 output tubes? Just curious.

Yes, this. So far no one has answered about the 6V6's, but I really don't know.

**lawson-stone** · 01-11-2019, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Doug B

Thanks for the more complete explanation. I'm starting to think that I'd rather spend my time practising and playing music rather than getting all techy with little benefit. I may eventually upgrade my Win7 to W10 so that I can use the Fuse software, but I am really not looking forward to installing bloody Windows.

It's not like I can't get some rather nice clean sounds out of the Champ.

Cheers,

Doug

Totally true. I enjoyed Channel 1 as is, but in Channel 2 really enjoyed the 65 Twin Clean, esp. through a cab with a 12" speaker. It's a very versatile head, and with the USB out you can use it for direct digital recording to your computer. A lot to explore in one package.

**John A.** · 01-11-2019, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Would there be any point in playing around with the 6V6 output tubes? Just curious.

If you're playing quite loud and want to either change the character of the power-section overdrive subtly, or its clean headroom, maybe. But at bedroom non-band volumes where you're focused on clean tones, I highly doubt that switching to other power tubes would make meaningful difference, unless the existing tubes are on their last legs.

John

**Doug B** · 01-11-2019, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Totally true. I enjoyed Channel 1 as is, but in Channel 2 really enjoyed the 65 Twin Clean, esp. through a cab with a 12" speaker. It's a very versatile head, and with the USB out you can use it for direct digital recording to your computer. A lot to explore in one package.

Channel one is a blackface amp-I'd say a Deluxe. On Channel 2, I like the 65 Twin and also the Bassman. I too use a 12" speaker. I haven't even tried the USB for recording yet.

The SCX2 is quite a reasonable amp head, especially for the price. I would have bought it for Channel one alone. I only wish that Fender had put an effects loop in, but I can live without it.

**Doug B** · 01-11-2019, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

If you're playing quite loud and want to either change the character of the power-section overdrive subtly, or its clean headroom, maybe. But at bedroom non-band volumes where you're focused on clean tones, I highly doubt that switching to other power tubes would make meaningful difference, unless the existing tubes are on their last legs.

John

And what tubes would you use for cleaner headroom? Thanks

Doug

**John A.** · 01-11-2019, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Doug B

And what tubes would you use for cleaner headroom? Thanks

Doug

Sorry, I don't have any specific recommendations.

John

**Thumpalumpacus** · 01-11-2019, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Would there be any point in playing around with the 6V6 output tubes? Just curious.

Probably not. I put 6L6s in my Tweaker 15 and found more headroom than the 6V6s that came stock, but it wasn't a very drastic change, and that's in an amp where the circuit is primarily glass. I like the SCXD/X2 amps and I'd just play one as-is. They get solid tones in many different musical environments.

**Thumpalumpacus** · 01-11-2019, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Doug B

And what tubes would you use for cleaner headroom? Thanks

Doug

Brand-wise, you're not going to see meaningful differences in headroom on that particular amp, I don't think. As noted above, I put bigger glass in my Tweaker (which is self-biasing, and has a transformer that can handle the larger current draws), and found a little more clean headroom -- a little. I am not recommending this for you and your amp, because 1) the SCXD/X2may not be self-biasing, leading to suboptimal performance with non-spec tubes, and 2) if the power transformer is not sufficient to power the larger tubes, you'll probably shorten its life.

I'm not an amp tech, but this is what I've garnered from my readings. You may wish to do a bit more research on a Fender amp or amp hobbyist forum.

**lawson-stone** · 01-11-2019, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus

Probably not. I put 6L6s in my Tweaker 15 and found more headroom than the 6V6s that came stock, but it wasn't a very drastic change, and that's in an amp where the circuit is primarily glass. I like the SCXD/X2 amps and I'd just play one as-is. They get solid tones in many different musical environments.

I was not aware you could put 6L6s in place of 6V6s. Is that common?

Never mind i just saw your other post.

**Doug B** · 01-11-2019, 08:18 PM

I was talking type of tube, not brand name.

Don't get me wrong, I like my Super Champ. But I'm an explorer and always wonder "what else" can possibly be done to the amp or guitar or whatever. If there is only a 1-2% improvement, then to me that's a waste of time.

Cheers

Doug