Replacing TOM with ebony bridge on a Gibson L-5CES

**Mark M.** · 12-08-2018, 12:27 PM

Hey guys. Any advice on the best place to get an ebony bridge for my L5CES? Thanks in advance.

**deacon Mark** · 12-08-2018, 02:23 PM

If all you need do is drop a ebony saddle on tap then almost regular spaced ebony bridge would work. If the spacing is correct then you just buy a premade ebony bridge from numerous places.

The best solution to do it really nice is get a luthier or repairman to set it up. When I do these conversion I use the TOM to get the intonation correct then carve the top of the saddle to the pattern of the TOM. Most of the time a slighlty tapered saddle from bass side e to treble will provide the best intonation.

**lawson-stone** · 12-08-2018, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by deacon Mark

If all you need do is drop a ebony saddle on tap then almost regular spaced ebony bridge would work. If the spacing is correct then you just buy a premade ebony bridge from numerous places.

The best solution to do it really nice is get a luthier or repairman to set it up. When I do these conversion I use the TOM to get the intonation correct then carve the top of the saddle to the pattern of the TOM. Most of the time a slighlty tapered saddle from bass side e to treble will provide the best intonation.

I've found that spacing is what can actually be the problem. The base of the Gibson TOM has posts 2.9" apart. Most wooden saddles I've seen have a different spacing. So far I have not found one advertised with .29"/74mm post spacing.

I'd love to be wrong on that point! ;-)

**deacon Mark** · 12-08-2018, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I've found that spacing is what can actually be the problem. The base of the Gibson TOM has posts 2.9" apart. Most wooden saddles I've seen have a different spacing. So far I have not found one advertised with .29"/74mm post spacing.

I'd love to be wrong on that point! ;-)

ib
Lawson you are probably correct. The best is to find a saddle blank and then drill the holes to the correct spacing with a a drill press. A replacement Gibson L5 ebony bridge and saddle are ridiculously, I have seen them at times 400-$500. You can carve a replacement for less than that, the inlay on the sides is what really cannot be duplicated without huge expense. The answer is a full ebony bridge replacement.

**deacon Mark** · 12-08-2018, 02:56 PM

Here you go and not really out of sight pricing. Rosewood but will work equally really.

BRIDGE fits Gibson Arch top L-5 Super 400 Inlayed Mother of Pearl wow JVGuitars | eBay

**lawson-stone** · 12-08-2018, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by deacon Mark

ib
Lawson you are probably correct. The best is to find a saddle blank and then drill the holes to the correct spacing with a a drill press. A replacement Gibson L5 ebony bridge and saddle are ridiculously, I have seen them at times 400-$500. You can carve a replacement for less than that, the inlay on the sides is what really cannot be duplicated without huge expense. The answer is a full ebony bridge replacement.

Thanks! I figured you'd run into this before. Strange how that little bit of inlay on the L5 bridge base exert such a dominance on the emotions!

**Mark M.** · 12-08-2018, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by deacon Mark

If all you need do is drop a ebony saddle on tap then almost regular spaced ebony bridge would work. If the spacing is correct then you just buy a premade ebony bridge from numerous places.

The best solution to do it really nice is get a luthier or repairman to set it up. When I do these conversion I use the TOM to get the intonation correct then carve the top of the saddle to the pattern of the TOM. Most of the time a slighlty tapered saddle from bass side e to treble will provide the best intonation.

Thanks, Mark. The saddle is exactly what I need. Lawson, thanks for pointing out the correct spacing. It looks like my choices are to find the correct spacing or get a luthier to drill the holes on a blank. I’ll have to do some investigating.

**Jazzstdnt** · 12-09-2018, 01:37 PM

Has anyone checked these out?

True-Tone Bridge - Sadowsky Guitars

**oldwoodak** · 12-09-2018, 03:51 PM

Yes the Sadowsky bridges are great
have one on my jimmy bruno and recently put on a 62 175 with excellent results
highly recommended
Are they only custom orders now? Got mine used on ebay

**GNAPPI** · 12-09-2018, 04:37 PM

This looks pretty darn close to me:

Archtop guitar ebony bridge for jazz guitar | eBay

**Jimmy Mack** · 12-09-2018, 05:30 PM

What about this one? Looks to come from China!
Archtop guitar ebony bridge for jazz guitar | eBay

**Jimmy Mack** · 12-09-2018, 05:41 PM

Yes, the inlay is extremely important. If you pay that much to have a real L5, you must have the real bridge. That's just the way it is!

I played an L5 at a store, fell in love with it. Put it down and went home to think about it. Nervously considering the investment... my wife said: "go for it, you can always sell it, or you can enjoy it the rest of your life". (These guitars hang in the stores for a while) and when I returned to get serious, I noticed the bridge had been ripped out from under the strings (under standard tuning). The store, eager to make the sale, took my deposit and promised to get a replacement from Gibson. Not gonna happen. Gibson didn't even return the calls to this GC. After 2 weeks, th sales manager was pissed and took another bridge from a Super 400 (with the required inlays - it was a deal breaker for me.) So now I have L5, and the TOM bridge with ebony base w. inlays.
Yes, they are important.

**ThatRhythmMan** · 12-09-2018, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

This looks pretty darn close to me:

Archtop guitar ebony bridge for jazz guitar | eBay

I’m going to almost guarantee that bridge is not made of ebony or any other wood that most would find acceptable. I’ve seen some like this and they always been a very soft wood that has been stained black.

**Stringswinger** · 12-10-2018, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan

I’m going to almost guarantee that bridge is not made of ebony or any other wood that most would find acceptable. I’ve seen some like this and they always been a very soft wood that has been stained black.

Totally agree. The stuff sold on Ebay from China is almost always worth about what you pay for it. And most archtop bridges/saddles that I have bought on EBay have never had the right spacing. In this case only a Gibson part (or luthier made part) will do.

**Matt Cushman** · 12-10-2018, 09:18 AM

I can custom make a bridge saddle or a bridge base or both in ebony for you. You can PM me for more info and pricing.

**GNAPPI** · 12-10-2018, 10:50 AM

I bought a half dozen bridges or more all were well worth the $. They all needed a bit of sanding, oiling and fitting. I have an ebony one on my 175.

**Marty Grass** · 12-10-2018, 12:07 PM

Some of my guitars have both a TOM and an ebony saddle. I have found that when the ebony saddle notches are filed with a sharp apex facing the neck, the sustain is similar to the TOM. I don't hear a lot of difference between metal and wood when amplified.

I like the look of ebony, to be sure.

At this point in my guitar journey I've found that the nut and saddle slots are very important. That may seem obvious to most, but a lot of luthiers don't get it right. My guess is that this is because most electric guitarists don't pay that much attention.

Ebony is a hard wood, meaning it's dense. Surprisingly it is less dense than the teflon saddles put in the older Gibson semi-hollows. It is about half as dense as aluminum, a substance Gibson has used for its bridges. So even though it is a harder wood, it is soft compared to "modern" materials.

Check this out.

Material Densities | A Psimple Psaltery

The effect of wood over metal, it seems to me, would be to dampen the higher frequencies due to its compressibility. It may also lead to a more rapid decay in a note.

The end result may not be that dramatic because whether it's aluminum, a heavier metal, or wood, the vibrations end up taking the same course through the the posts, the base and the top.

I haven't kept track, but I'll bet I simply adjusted to the tone settings to offset any obvious differences between wood and metal.

I expect to hear disagreement about this.

**sgosnell** · 12-10-2018, 05:15 PM

IME changing the base makes more difference than changing the saddle. The fit of the base makes a big difference, sometimes good, sometimes not so much. I've had some guitars which sound much better with a two-foot style base than with a well-fitted solid base. And vice versa. Every guitar is different, and responds differently to pressure at different points. I think it's best to keep the same base if the guitar already sounds good, but you might prefer the sound of a different base on some guitars. I've tried, and I'm complstely unable to predict how a different base will change the sound, other than that it will change it.

**ThatRhythmMan** · 12-10-2018, 06:59 PM

OTOH, I’ve seen a different saddle make an enormous difference. I have a Super 400C that’s an average acoustic archtop at best with the factory TOM with which it started life. With the ebony saddle I put on it it’s world class, and that’s the only thing I changed.

**sgosnell** · 12-10-2018, 10:58 PM

Yes, of course changing from a tom to a wooden saddle, or vice versa, can make a big difference. It's a big change in mass. I didn't mean to say that changing the saddle makes no difference, only that the base can also change the sound a lot. But if you change both, you don't know which made the difference, or whether it was both. I prefer to change one at a time, if possible, but it's not always possible. The upside is that it's easy enough to change back to the originals if you don't like the change.

**customxke** · 12-11-2018, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Thanks! I figured you'd run into this before. Strange how that little bit of inlay on the L5 bridge base exert such a dominance on the emotions!

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack

Yes, the inlay is extremely important. If you pay that much to have a real L5, you must have the real bridge. That's just the way it is!

I played an L5 at a store, fell in love with it. Put it down and went home to think about it. Nervously considering the investment... my wife said: "go for it, you can always sell it, or you can enjoy it the rest of your life". (These guitars hang in the stores for a while) and when I returned to get serious, I noticed the bridge had been ripped out from under the strings (under standard tuning). The store, eager to make the sale, took my deposit and promised to get a replacement from Gibson. Not gonna happen. Gibson didn't even return the calls to this GC. After 2 weeks, th sales manager was pissed and took another bridge from a Super 400 (with the required inlays - it was a deal breaker for me.) So now I have L5, and the TOM bridge with ebony base w. inlays.
Yes, they are important.

L5s didn't have that inlay for the first 50 years or so, and they were just fine.

**lawson-stone** · 12-11-2018, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by customxke

L5s didn't have that inlay for the first 50 years or so, and they were just fine.

True but most of us think of the L5 as it is today, and today, that inlay is characteristic and part of the guitar's character and vibe. It is not just a tool. It is also a beautiful thing that is a joy to see as well as to use.

**customxke** · 12-11-2018, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

True but most of us think of the L5 as it is today, and today, that inlay is characteristic and part of the guitar's character and vibe. It is not just a tool. It is also a beautiful thing that is a joy to see as well as to use.

I think most of us think of older L5s, or pre-Norlin L-5s. Wes and his L5 is certainly one of the most iconic images in jazz.....and Wes' L5 did not have an inlaid bridge base...nor did anyone else's until the 1970s. When I think of an L5, I think of a script logo L5P. Horses for courses of course, YMMV, IMHO etc etc....but to discount a guitar bridge, or an entire guitar because it doesn't have a feature that was introduced during the least sought after period of manufacture of this model, strikes me as odd. Thats all.

**lawson-stone** · 12-11-2018, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by customxke

I think most of us think of older L5s, or pre-Norlin L-5s. Wes and his L5 is certainly one of the most iconic images in jazz.....and Wes' L5 did not have an inlaid bridge base...nor did anyone else's until the 1970s. When I think of an L5, I think of a script logo L5P. Horses for courses of course, YMMV, IMHO etc etc....but to discount a guitar bridge, or an entire guitar because it doesn't have a feature that was introduced during the least sought after period of manufacture of this model, strikes me as odd. Thats all.

But if you are considering purchase of an L5 post 1970's, you expect the inlaid bridge base. I don't know if "most of us" think of older L5s or not. I am not among your august company there at the guitarist nursing home where the old codgers talk about "back in the day, before those new-fangled inlaid bridges." I have always admired that little inlay, and I know many others who do. And if you're buying Norlin era or later, it's original equipment. If it's gone, one does not pay the price of an all-original one.

**customxke** · 12-11-2018, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

But if you are considering purchase of an L5 post 1970's, you expect the inlaid bridge base. I don't know if "most of us" think of older L5s or not. I am not among your august company there at the guitarist nursing home where the old codgers talk about "back in the day, before those new-fangled inlaid bridges." I have always admired that little inlay, and I know many others who do. And if you're buying Norlin era or later, it's original equipment. If it's gone, one does not pay the price of an all-original one.

I'm hardly a codger, nor am I casting any judgement regarding the bridge. I'm addressing the false notion that if it doesn't have an inlay, it isn't a "real" (as stated in another post) L5 bridge. As a side note, your somewhat insulting tone, reference to codgers and nursing homes is highly disrespectful.