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The latest news on Gibson’s plans for Memphis...it appears that they will not be moving into a smaller facility as previously stated. Now, they are saying that they will consolidate operations in Nashville. Gibson walking from Memphis as hollowbody production moves to Nashville | MusicRadar
Keith
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12-05-2018 09:16 AM
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The guitar industry is (overall in the USA) seeking a smaller footprint to match the necessities brought on by shifting demographics. There are fewer young people and they play, on the whole, less guitar.
Things could one day change, but for the time being music is not all that guitar oriented.
I'm just glad that Gibson isn't abandoning US production. The fact that it's consolidating in Nashville seems to suggest that production is going to be Les Paul/SG/ES-335 centered for electric guitars.
Let's see what the other US makers do.
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I'm just happy to hear that Gibson is still in business and that they are going to make hollow bodies.
I hope that includes all of the famous jazz archtops like the L-5, Tal Farlow, Le Grande etc.
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Gibson leaving Memphis? I'm shocked!
Last edited by Hammertone; 12-06-2018 at 06:41 PM.
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I never quite understood the logic of having separate buildings in separate cities for overlapping product lines that rely on the same basic tooling, methods and materials. This is on top of my never really understanding the logic of "This is an ES 335 that is a reproduction of the old good ones and costs a good chunk of change. This is a more expensive ES 335. This one is _really_ a reproduction of the old good ones. Here is a _much_ more expensive ES 335, and this one, for real, no kidding, we mean it, is really really a reproduction of the old good ones. And here's another one ..."
Just make one friggin' ES 335 the right way, offer different cosmetic options and upgrades, cut the bullshit about degrees of authenticity, and deliver it via a production and logistics set up that allows for sane prices. If that's what the new guys are doing, good on them. Is Bozeman next?
John
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Amen, brother John!
Originally Posted by John A.
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I do not care about Gibson to be honest.
There are many fine guitars besides them nowadays for much less money.
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I wonder about starting up a company and it made 4 guitars only. These guitars would be exact replicas of Gibson. An ES175, Tal, L5 and Super 400. The L5 and Super could be acoustic or CES. Make these guitars only concentrate on them to make exact specs, no customer orders and just turn them out in top shape. Could this type of a guitar company survive?
When I mean exact duplicates that is what I mean. Nothing but exact down to all the specs so that you could not tell them apart. The beauty is complete specialization with no distractions and really nothing new to market as such. I suppose it is crazy but I would love to be part of that arrangement. I guess there would not really be a sizable market to keep the need workers going but hey, could it make a go and I just am a pessimist.
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Well yes, many people are not in the market for a Gibson guitar, and many with reasons such as yours. Originally Posted by Drumbler
It is nonetheless of some interest to us to watch the moves and eventual re-emergence of them as a manufacturer.
Imagine for example a 275 with better workmanship?
I understand your view, but find the ongoing story of the company interesting.
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Who buys it...? I mean new Gibsons? Rich amateurs who want to sound like Wes? Pop stars to hang it as necklace and walk on stage?I hope that includes all of the famous jazz archtops like the L-5, Tal Farlow, Le Grande etc.
Years ago they were well-made reliable and though expesive yet reasonably affordable instrument for an accomplished pro.
I believe archtop market today is the good vintage instruments, top luthier's work, and new brands solutions... reasonably affordable reliable etc.
After all ... I'd rather wish there would come up a new interesting brand/idea on the market (like Martin and Gibson did many years ago)... an idea that will be an interesting solution for professionals and can even affect th image and style of music...
I think Godin o did that thing.. not as huge impact as Gibson but still they did... Godin offered some interesting solutions like Multiac and in general - whatever we like - their 'face' on the market is probably the most special amd recognizeable of all the modern brands...
And also I like headless guitars...
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Maybe outside the USA. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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Yeah, I remember when a person trying to make it could walk in and plunk down $1k and walk out with a new L5CES. A grand was a lot of samolians, but not so many that you couldn't save up summer job money and get an L5. It was a couple of Les Pauls...and many of us owned a couple of Les Pauls.
Back then, there was always a guy at the local restaurant who played a L5CES into a Fender combo amp. He played Great American Songbook stuff, did reasonably well, and collected $100-$150 for the effort.
Problem is, that gig _still_ pays $100. Meanwhile, the guitar has become unobtanium--at least relative to the income stream it can generate.
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I hope they can consolidate something more than locations. I hope they can find what lutherie skills they still have in resource and use it to best advantage. I just received a Gibson out of the box at the shop where I work at and yikes! the neck was set wrong (unrecoveribly bad neck/body geometry: Sent it back right away.) I had the rep swing by and sure enough he sheepishly agreed that the instrument was just built badly.
I'm not a Gibson basher (put down your weapons guys) but something bigger than workforce has to come together if they want to really save their reputation. Too many others are paying attention to details not to be playing your A game.
Good luck
David
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Good hear that you caught the problem at the dealer level during the incoming inspection. I have to wonder what percentage of dealers would have caught the problem. Originally Posted by TruthHertz
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Gibson's bankruptcy, re-structuring and building consolidation plans seem to be a smart plan. Hopefully they'll also improve their guitar product consistency at all price points. When Gibson builds a guitar 'right', they do an incredible job, but when they fall short...
Even Heritage Guitars had to make tough changes as they transferred ownership from the original founders to Bandlab.
Heritage Guitar Teams with BandLab
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Danielle, I wonder that too. When I unbox, I go through an extensive point to point inspection and I'm sorry to say Gibsons don't fare well as a whole. It's ironically revealing that my quality control chops are from my days at Ibanez where every guitar got inspected, and yes I found problems there too, but the difference is, the customer never saw them. Th0se QC and repair departments that take an active part in product excellence create a more active feedback between errors in crafting and catching (and learning from) problems before the public ever sees it. It does surprise me that Gibson bypassed that process. Originally Posted by DanielleOM
But we all know that. In my shop, I have my Johnny Smith hanging there next to my station. Let's hope the mojo of the past can make some sparks in the future.
David
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Gonna be really interesting to see Gibsons approach in the industry during the next year.
Hopefully they will make the QC fixed, the word spreads quick in the internet era. My biggest reason not getting them is the price point tho, their main series like the Les Paul standard and ES 355 is factory line but even more expensive then tons of good reputation custom shops and luthiers. For the price of a Les Paul standard, I can get both a Fender Elite, a Fender 65 twin reverb and still have money left for a couple pedals.. Im sure im not the only one in my age (the ones who will buy guitars the upcoming 40 years) who thinks that way.
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Originally Posted by TruthHertz
How do you compare your old JS to a new LeGrand? Mine are pretty darned good.Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 12-06-2018 at 10:23 AM.
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We don't know all the inside details of course but this all seems logical, given recent history and status of the company.
These are all just business decisions: Should we expand or contract our product line? Should we target a different market segment? Should we offer more features and options? Should we open, close, or re-locate a plant or two? Should we outsource some parts or services? etc.
So - how many USA-based factories does one guitar company need, anyway? How many does Martin have? PRS?
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Honestly, it's really hard to compare. I remember the JS when it was younger. It was good but nothing like what it has become. I've tried some pretty recent L-5's and my personal reaction was "ugh", but I also know those instruments break in, mature and become completely different beasts if matured with a player that gives it constant attention, so yeah, I really can't compare them myself. I'll also add that I can feel an instrument that has been owned by a player as opposed to an instrument owned by a pristine collector. A well played guitar feels like a pair of soft gloves. It nuances differently and more deeply to my ear. Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
I'll share a little story. Violins, like archtop guitars have a very long maturation curve. A classical guitar will peak in about 6 years, but good archtops I've known have a 12-25 year "ripening" period. Before that, I'll generally hold my judgement. Stradavarius whose instruments are legendary today, never knew, never heard any of his instruments really sing in his lifetime. Between the convention of neck resets which all modern violins now have angled to, and the curing of varnish, breaking in of the top and back and the hardening of the grain line resins, Strads are quite different now than they were during the meistro's lifetime. Yeah, he literally had no idea what his violins would become. And of course he knew it.
Kind of tragic, don't you think?
David
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I don't know, I think it would be more tragic if there had been no Cremona violin makers. :0 Originally Posted by TruthHertz
I don't really know, but I'm confident that he took satisfaction from his work.
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Yep It would be more profitable for Gibson to make fewer Models and focus on the established models they are so well known for make Exelant Guitars. Let Epi Deal with the other models.
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The reason for the plethora of models is that Gibson's problem is much like the gun industry's economic challenge: the number of households owning either has fallen a lot, so they have to try to sell more to each of those households. Instead of a lot of homes with one or two, they are depending on fewer homes with 5-10. So there are like 30 models of Les Pauls to try to create demand among enthusiasts (I know people who've bought special edition Les Pauls and haven't even unboxed them- they are a collectible investment rather than a musical instrument. What they actually play is an Epi or a Studio).
If all Gibson made was one Les Paul model, one ES-175 model, one L-5 model and one ES-335 model, just speaking of the primary jazz instruments and the mainstay rock guitar... they wouldn't make it to the end of fiscal 2019. How many forum members have 4, 5, 8 or more Gibsons? Those are the folks keeping Gibson alive.
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I too have thought about almost the same idea of a guitar company with one or two models and I’m close to the factories here in Japan. I wonder what it would take to place a minimum order with a builder like Fujigen. I may have to look into this some more.
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I think that's very insightful. Variety is the spice of life. Not everybody can afford a car collection but many guitarists own more than one guitar, even of the same type ("I have to have one for back-up honey. Or, uh, maybe two. Besides - just look at that color!"). Originally Posted by Cunamara
If Gibson didn't have options people would scratch that itch by buying another guitar from somebody else. Gibson is simply making the point "why go elsewhere"?"
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