Anybody tried the new Bartel amps?

**whiskey02** · 11-09-2018, 10:30 AM

Those amps are not really expensive, in fact they are inexpensive for what goes into them. The Nov 18' issue of premier guitar features a 1962 Fender twin which had a list price of $429.50. Adjusted for inflation that comes to $3555.00 People today are so used to buying goods designed and manufactured with cheap materials and planned obsolescence that they don't know what real quality, performance and durability are. Think of $430 bucks in 1962, and people today complain that a Roland Blues Cube is outrageously over priced.
Those are probably very fine amps but I suspect there's a lot of elements involved in making one that don't really need to be there.

**Dennis D** · 11-09-2018, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by bananafist

I mentioned the UK prices, just to illustrate how much more we have to pay this side of the pond. The US prices are on the website.

But you can buy Mambo's over there for less, which brings me to another question: Do you get twice as much of everything for twice the money ?? ( boutique vs Mambo, Cube, etc ) ..or in some cases close to three times the money ?

Man I have to wonder.......

MHO

**mr. beaumont** · 11-09-2018, 12:04 PM

Heck no...

It's called the law of diminishing returns...

**Little Jay** · 11-09-2018, 12:14 PM

Nice amps, but I already have a vintage hand-made true point-to-point amp that sounds superb and cost me only $350 including transport from Germany...... so I saved myself some $5500 I guess......

Vintage Framus Strato 345 amp:

**PB+J** · 11-09-2018, 12:55 PM

Worth pointing out again that he isn't making a vintage amp clone, he's promoting entirely new circuit designs.

I'm skeptical of the value but still want to praise the level of meticulous detail. It's impressive.

I have a pro junior I made a few tweaks to and put in a 12 inch cab I built out of pine. It's a great amp and I have less than $500 in it. Could it be better? Yes. Turret board construction would be easier to service. Mounting the tube sockets in the chassis would be a good idea. It might be better if somebody rethought the lead dress. The returns seem to diminish pretty quickly

**Little Jay** · 11-09-2018, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by PB+J

I'm skeptical of the value but still want to praise the level of meticulous detail. It's impressive.

The craftsmanship, finish and the details are indeed impressive, that can’t be denied!!

**helios** · 11-09-2018, 03:20 PM

If you want the closest attention to detail, and the very best components, considering the time Mark Bartel must put into each amp, I don't think his amps are overpriced. There's certainly not for everyone, but I know some will buy them.

**Little Jay** · 11-09-2018, 03:20 PM

Would like to see some clips with an archtop just playing clean jazz....

**El Fundo** · 11-09-2018, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

Would like to see some clips with an archtop just playing clean jazz....

Yeah, that would sure be nice. Don’t hold your breath though.

**Woody Sound** · 11-09-2018, 03:40 PM

Wouldn't you just freak out if you got to a gig and it started crackling or something?

**Little Jay** · 11-09-2018, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Woody Sound

Wouldn't you just freak out if you got to a gig and it started crackling or something?

Or the other guitar player with his Cube sounds better than you do........

**Alter** · 11-09-2018, 04:58 PM

I guess if you are interested in gear, you are bound to go the boutique way at some point, guitars, amps or pedals. Most musicians i know, me included, run full circle back to classic gear eventually..

After owning some gear and hearing stories about much more, the one thing i value the most in builders is experience. Or you might be paying for it. And of course anyone can charge whatever they want or can, but in the real world competition is fierce..

**KSscooter** · 01-25-2020, 01:17 PM

I have had a 2018 Bartel Starwood for going on two years. I LOVE it. It is so responsive, so musical, and such a chameleon that words can’t do it justice. I suppose it is kind of expensive, but the best sometimes costs more and it’s dirt cheap compared to a Harley or a bass boat. I got rid of an original 65’ Deluxe Reverb, a Vibro King, a 68’ Princeton Reverb, and a couple other things to soften the blow of writing the check for the Bartel. My guitar room suddenly had more space with the Bartel, a side benefit. I have about decided I need one of the new head/cabinet versions of the Starwood that were just introduced at the 2020 NAMM show too. I have a USA Fender Nashville Tele, a USA Strat, Gibson 61’ SG, and a PRS Core Custom 24, and they all sound terrific through the amp. My band plays an extraordinary mix of material, and I’ve got the perfect amp for all of it. At a little over 40 pounds it isn’t impossible to move either. Anyway, thumbs up from me.

**LtKojak** · 01-26-2020, 07:52 AM

Alert!
Necrothreading Alert!

**joebloggs13** · 02-20-2023, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by KSscooter

I have had a 2018 Bartel Starwood for going on two years. I LOVE it. It is so responsive, so musical, and such a chameleon that words can’t do it justice. I suppose it is kind of expensive, but the best sometimes costs more and it’s dirt cheap compared to a Harley or a bass boat. I got rid of an original 65’ Deluxe Reverb, a Vibro King, a 68’ Princeton Reverb, and a couple other things to soften the blow of writing the check for the Bartel. My guitar room suddenly had more space with the Bartel, a side benefit. I have about decided I need one of the new head/cabinet versions of the Starwood that were just introduced at the 2020 NAMM show too. I have a USA Fender Nashville Tele, a USA Strat, Gibson 61’ SG, and a PRS Core Custom 24, and they all sound terrific through the amp. My band plays an extraordinary mix of material, and I’ve got the perfect amp for all of it. At a little over 40 pounds it isn’t impossible to move either. Anyway, thumbs up from me.

Great post. I am seriously considering the Roseland. The demos of both the Starwood and Roseland sound fantastic. The price is what it is, and I am OK with it. I currently own a Reeves Custom 50(Hiwatt), a Louis Electric Columbia Reverb(perfect vintage BF) and a Carr Telstar(vintage tweed). I think the Roseland, with it's capability to do a JTM45 sound(amongst others), will fit in nicely.

**P.J.** · 02-21-2023, 06:57 AM

Visually, they are striking.

**ruger9** · 02-21-2023, 08:57 AM

Wow the amp the tele guy is playing sounds awesome. I looked at Bartel amps awhile back, and came away with the same feeling some of you did: no doubt great, but too expensive. But since that time I have been financially able to buy some things I haven't been able to for many years. Now that I have experienced "the other side", my $0.02...

Nothing is "overpriced", not really. If something speaks to you and inspires you, then it IS worth the price. And like someone said above, still cheaper than a Harley, or a Rolex (I'll NEVER understand the expensive watch thing.)

As for boutique amps "not being understood", most boutique amps are not simple copies of vintage circuits. They differ. I have a Tungsten Crema Wheat which is based on the 5E3, but it's not the same; it has a tighter bass response and more headroom. That doesn't make it better or worse, only different. But for those who don't like the 5E3 circuit because it's low end is flabby and it breaks up too soon, the Crema Wheat is the "improvement." Ditto the Swart AST, which I also own.

The "worth it" thing regarding the price also is tied to means: Spending $2600 on the Swart is totally worth it to me, because it makes me want to play it. I bought the Tungsten used at roughly half price, but I would have paid full price, because it's worth it. However, regarding being tied to means: I don't have any kids that need new shoes, our home is paid off. Spending 3 grand on an amp that I love is worth it, after many years of trying many things... do I NEED a Bartel? No. Do I NEED a Swart? No. Does anyone NEED a Deluxe Reverb? No. A Pro Junior would suffice. Heck even one of the cheap modelers would be fine.

I wanted a PRS DGT for many years, but could never afford one. I could have bought it, but it would have been financially irresponsible. Fast forward to last year, it became no longer financially irresponsible. So I bought one. New. Absolutely no regrets, it is a fantastic guitar. It is "worth" the 5 grand (which I still think is a little obscene), to me. My #1 is still my old '93 tele, $699 new lol. But the whole "the price isn't worth it" is a stupid argument... it's relative. If a $700 or $5000 dollar guitar make you want to play them, they are worth it. If a $270 Katana or a $4000 Bartel make you want to play them, they are worth it. providing your kids have shoes and lunch money LOL.

Anyone saying "boutique amps aren't worth it", who is playing a DRRI or Pro Junior, or -instert your favorite jazz amp here-, is being disingenuous - because they could be playing a katana just fine. "Not worth it TO THEM" would be a more accurate statement. Hell, Jack Pearson SLAYS with a damned Squier strat. But so do many other players with much more expensive instruments. It just depends on what you connect with. The connection is worth the price of admission.

Some related thoughts on the subject:

[some] musicians DO develop a "sixth sense" making them very aware of immensely subtle sonic anomalies... some will spend considerable effort to resolve something that "abrades" their preferences, while others could care less....

I've known professionals in various fields over the years, Pro Golfers, Race Drivers, and a guitarist or two . . and one common denominator is their symbiotic interface with their "tools of the trade"... they detect variances that exist for most of us only in Science Fiction....

-Ron Kirn, tele builder extraordinaire

Joe Satriani:

"Having a guitar [I will add: or amp] that really inspires you cannot be overstated."

When a guitar feels comfortable in your hands, it’s impossible to put it down. There’s something about a guitar that, when it feels right, just inspires you to play. Before you know it, you’re writing songs on it and jamming on it all the time. And that’s going to affect the way you play, and it will ultimately affect your tone.
"Beyond pickups, vibrato bars, amps and anything else, your hands on the guitar – the way you pick and the way you fret the strings – is the most important element of your tone. So having a guitar that really inspires you cannot be overstated."

https://www.guitarplayer.com/gear/having-a-guitar-that-really-inspires-you-cannot-be-overstated-joe-satriani-reveals-the-most-important-element-of-tone

And when it comes to ELECTRIC guitar, the AMP ITSELF can be almost as much of an instrument as the guitar is... maybe moreso in some genres where the AMP is where the signature sound is coming from (like rock, which was born by turning amps up to 10 and distorting them).