Gibson L-5 WesMo Refinish

**djelley** · 11-06-2018, 01:24 PM

I have a 2014 WesMo with several cracks in the nitro on the top of the guitar. I think there was a shipping issue at some point and the top compressed enough to cause cracks. None of them appear to effect the wood and I don't believe that there is any structural damage, but I would need to have that checked.

Does anyone have any recommendations for a guitar refinishing service? I would want them to check for structural problems, and assuming that it is just a problem with the finish, strip the guitar and refinish.

I've found a few candidates via Google, but have any of you had this done and recommend someone (in the US)?

Thanks

**Papawooly** · 11-06-2018, 02:01 PM

There was a recent post with a Triggs San Salvador with
major finish checks, the OP went to Steve Holst and from the
before/after shots, did a tremendous job.

Here is the info for Steve Holst (no affiliation)

luthier stephen holst ordering information

**Papawooly** · 11-06-2018, 02:03 PM

... And one from Frank Ford...

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...checkfill.html

**deacon Mark** · 11-06-2018, 04:16 PM

Do you have a picture? Is the checking so bad that it looks bad. Frankly refinishing an L5 is a costly deal and unless it was just awful I would leave it alone. Checking the guitar for stability is easy and you can do that but if you are unsure here are some steps.

Get a small light and mirror and look inside the guitar completely. You get cheap mirror with telescoping rod and see all inside the guitar. See how the top looks and the sides. Are there cracks that go through the entire grain of the wood and can be seen inside. Weathering checking you describe is not good for finishes but normally even under drastic conditions the top is not effected. The top normally would crack if the wood gets really dry unless of course it gets physical damage from getting dropped or ect.

You can take the pickup off to get a better look too. Do you think the box was dropped in shipment? If it was all because of cold air and then hitting the warm air then I sure your issue has nothing to do with structural integrity.

**djelley** · 11-06-2018, 04:31 PM

Thanks for all of the info guys! This not weather checking. The guitar definitely suffered a drop at some point - there are three substantial cracks. Still, I really don't think that they effect the wood, but I need to look further.

It absolutely does not need to be refinished, but it bugs me. Other than the cracks, it is a fantastic guitar.

**Bluedawg** · 11-06-2018, 04:35 PM

Just think of it as adding character ....

Don't fix it feature it ... as long as its not structural

But that's IMHO

it's your guitar and your money .. do what makes you happy

**djelley** · 11-06-2018, 04:41 PM

If we assume that I'm correct and that there is no structural damage (big if) then wouldn't a refin increase the value? Is a refinished L5 in excellent condition worth more than an all-stock L5 with major cracks in the finish?

I don't plan on selling it, but it is a consideration. If we weren't talking about an L5, I wouldn't even think of refinishing, but these guitars are works of art - expensive ones. I was thinking that I would be willing to pay up to $1k for a refinish - is that unrealistic?

Thanks for any and all advice.

I will take photos as soon as I get a chance.

**deacon Mark** · 11-06-2018, 04:54 PM

YOu would be better off trading it for another WesMo than spending $1000 to refinish the guitar. Without pictures I cannot tell. A Wesmo that is completely refinished and not done by gibson is going to take a hit on the price. I hesitate to say how much it is 2014 so not really a vintage guitar. My guess is refinished the guitar is worth $4k tops and subtract anything else wrong from this.

Here is a thought. You sell it for an low price and figure the difference to get a clean WesMo. If you can sell it for say $3800 and put the rest toward a clean one in my opinion your are better off. Now if this is just some lacquer checking then I am fine with the guitar.

**Jabberwocky** · 11-06-2018, 04:59 PM

A refinish very seldom increases value. When you refinish, you do it to please yourself. You cannot recover the cost of a refinish from a sale and your L5 Wes Montgomery may even lose value. But if you are bothered by them lacquer checks you are bothered by them lacquer checks.

Marty Grass sends his guitars out to Pete Moreno of Moreno Guitar Works, Kalamazoo, MI. He would be my first port of call. Marty had his Guild Benedetto Johnny Smith Antique Sunburst stripped and refinished in Natural nitrocellulose by Pete and it turned out very nicely.

Lacquer checks are best left alone, if you ask me. What happens when it develops new lacquer checks after a refinish in nitrocellulose? The vintage formula checks easily.

I have a Super 300 that is checked all over. Beautiful crazed lines of age. Learn to see the wabi-sabi of things.

**Geechnyc** · 11-06-2018, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by djelley

This not weather checking. The guitar definitely suffered a drop at some point - there are three substantial cracks. Still, I really don't think that they effect the wood, but I need to look further.

I'm just wondering how a nitro finish could crack on any compression/dropping insufficient to damage the underlying wood and unrelated to weather conditions. (I've got plenty of checking on my guitars.) Good luck with your decision!

**djelley** · 11-06-2018, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by deacon Mark

YOu would be better off trading it for another WesMo than spending $1000 to refinish the guitar. Without pictures I cannot tell. A Wesmo that is completely refinished and not done by gibson is going to take a hit on the price. I hesitate to say how much it is 2014 so not really a vintage guitar. My guess is refinished the guitar is worth $4k tops and subtract anything else wrong from this.

Here is a thought. You sell it for an low price and figure the difference to get a clean WesMo. If you can sell it for say $3800 and put the rest toward a clean one in my opinion your are better off. Now if this is just some lacquer checking then I am fine with the guitar.

I'm surprised by this. If you search the market for ANY WesMo right now, you would be very lucky to find one or two in any condition and they are selling for between $6-$9k. It is VERY hard to find any L5's and they are all very expensive. Do you really think that a refinished guitar would drop that much in value? I could see it if it were a vintage model, but as you say - this isn't. Again, I'm not necessarily concerned about resale value, but this does surprise me.

Thanks again to all of you for the advice. I have no idea what I'm going to do, but the good news is that I have two other L5's in pristine condition and I'm in no hurry to do anything.

**vinnyv1k** · 11-06-2018, 06:16 PM

I had some nasty damage that Gibson did to the top of my Wesmo when the did a warranty repair on my neck. I sent it back and they repaired the damaged top completely perfect without a complete refinish. Yes it was over sprayed I am sure but completely unnoticeable. No one would ever know it had refinish work done to it.
I am in the camp that if it bugs you fix it. If you have Gibson do the work the value will not decrease unless the top is cracked into the wood. I have found that Gibson factory repairs do not devalue but private luthiers do.

TH · 11-06-2018, 06:40 PM

I've done work with lacquer amalgamator (retarder) and it actually gets into the finish breaches and "melts" the crazing and crackle back to a single undetectable state. Whether this would work on yours would be for an expert to tell. If you might grace us with a photo or two of the situation you're talking about, it'd go a long way to focus this discussion.

David

**vinnyv1k** · 11-06-2018, 07:48 PM

On a side note when Gibson did the finish repair on the top of my L5 Wes it came back sounding way better .....go figure ?

**wintermoon** · 11-06-2018, 07:50 PM

Guys, he's talking about cracks not finish checking

TH · 11-06-2018, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

On a side note when Gibson did the finish repair on the top of my L5 Wes it came back sounding way better .....go figure ?

When my cat comes back from the vet, she's real humble and well behaved...for a while.
David

TH · 11-06-2018, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by wintermoon

Guys, he's talking about cracks not finish checking

But not cracks in the wood, as I understand it. Not wood checking either. That's why I asked for pictures. It's not really clear. But cracks in the finish bear a closer similarity to finish crazing than they do to wood checking or wood cracks that have broken the grain line.

Originally Posted by djelley

I have a 2014 WesMo with several cracks in the nitro on the top of the guitar. I think there was a shipping issue at some point and the top compressed enough to cause cracks. None of them appear to effect the wood and I don't believe that there is any structural damage, but I would need to have that checked.

People have different names for things that others have different names for. Who knows? Cracks that follow into the wood, one issue involving cleats and patches. Cracks in the lacquer that don't go deeper than the finish, maybe an amalgamation or overspray.
Not much we can do but speculate until the pictures show up. The way I see it anyway
David

**customxke** · 11-06-2018, 08:44 PM

Cracks in the finish alone are crazing / checking. Otherwise it's the wood. I'm a little confused as to what's going on with the OP's guitar.

**icr** · 11-07-2018, 12:36 AM

Hard to know without a picture. For example, this is not just a crack in the nitro...

**Marty Grass** · 11-07-2018, 09:04 AM

These kind of cracks bother us when we think of the guitar as more than just a tool.

I did get a Guild Benedetto Johnny Smith Award refinished because it had a ton of very obvious finish checks due to winter shipping. I hesitated to have it refinished for about six months because it didn't seem to bother me enough to get the work done. Patrick pressured me because he felt it made the guitar look shattered.

It turned out to be the right thing to do. The finish went from a honey color to bare natural. Pulling off the original finish showed the glory of the spruce and the maple. More importantly, Guild put way too much lacquer on the guitar. It was noticeably more resonant with a thin coat of clear lacquer.

Back to the OP. Would pressure on the top during shipping cause checking? Yep! Wood is more elastic than dried nitro. The finish can develop stress checks without harming the wood. It's not just temperature and humidity that does that.

Some of the best working guitarists have instruments with age and wear signs. Their focus is on their sounds. I wish I had more of that focus myself.

**Greentone** · 11-07-2018, 09:13 AM

Doc,

My thoughts, too. Some pressure was put on that guitar--probably in the case, maybe during shipping. In a snug-fitting case, placing stuff on top of the case can result in stress finish cracks. I've seen it before.

You are correct about the elasticity of the wood vs the elasticity of the nitro finish.

**djelley** · 11-07-2018, 09:25 AM

I promise that pictures are coming! I also have an inspection mirror on the way and I hope to be able to see the underside to see if the wood is effected. My best guess is that it is what Marty and Geentone said - somewhere in shipping, pressure was put on the top either by dropping it or just being careless and it compressed the top enough to crack the finish.

I hadn't considered sending it back to Gibson, but that would seem to be the best option if I decide to have it done. Does anyone know what the turnaround time would look like? As I said, I'm not in a hurry to do anything, but you know as soon as I send it out I'll be chomping at the bit to get it back!

Thanks again for all of the advice.

Photos soon - I promise.

**BigMikeinNJ** · 11-07-2018, 11:52 AM

?I'd be inclined to want to repair it if the checking was on the top and visible. I won a Gibson Citation with a small amount of finish checking on the neck/heel area - doesn't phase me at all and the rest of the guitar is perfect. I'm told that is an area checking easily occurs. I bought the Guild Marty is talking about and Pete did a masterful job, but fair warning, Pete is getting old and is already very busy. You would be smarter to have Gibson do the refinish, a refinished guitar is gonna take a price hit, refinished at Gibson not so much if at all...

Good luck

Originally Posted by Marty Grass

These kind of cracks bother us when we think of the guitar as more than just a tool.

I did get a Guild Benedetto Johnny Smith Award refinished because it had a ton of very obvious finish checks due to winter shipping. I hesitated to have it refinished for about six months because it didn't seem to bother me enough to get the work done. Patrick pressured me because he felt it made the guitar look shattered.

It turned out to be the right thing to do. The finish went from a honey color to bare natural. Pulling off the original finish showed the glory of the spruce and the maple. More importantly, Guild put way too much lacquer on the guitar. It was noticeably more resonant with a thin coat of clear lacquer.

Back to the OP. Would pressure on the top during shipping cause checking? Yep! Wood is more elastic than dried nitro. The finish can develop stress checks without harming the wood. It's not just temperature and humidity that does that.

Some of the best working guitarists have instruments with age and wear signs. Their focus is on their sounds. I wish I had more of that focus myself.

**vinnyv1k** · 11-07-2018, 11:53 AM

Before the Gibson bankruptcy when I returned guitars to Gibson the turnaround was almost always 6 weeks and never more than 8. Mine though were warranty repairs. You would need to call the Repair and Restoration shop for a ETA for your situation where I dealt with the Crimson shop. In your case they may just have the Crimson guys handle it.
The Restoration shop does very stellar work but pricey.