Carbon Fiber Archtop Guitars

**Jim Soloway** · 05-19-2019, 08:17 PM

So while we're on the subject of Emerald guitars ... I think this is pretty cool (and I'm always a fan of Ian Ethan Case)

**Jim Soloway** · 05-19-2019, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Hammertone

Have you considered a '70's Telecaster with the famous Fender "Thickskin Finish?
Doubles as a canoe paddle.

For that I have my blue Gosling. Massive neck with a 1 13/16 nut and a pair of graphite rods running through the neck. So far it's the one guitar that seems to stay stable for me here (and anywhere I've ever taken it).

**Hammertone** · 05-19-2019, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

For that I have my blue Gosling. Massive neck with a 1 13/16 nut and a pair of graphite rods running through the neck. So far it's the one guitar that seems to stay stable for me here (and anywhere I've ever taken it).

Cool.
If you spray a pound or so of clear catalyzed polyester over the entire thing, it will be even more stable!
I can always talk to my pals at Hofner about getting you a Verythin with a few extra pounds of clearcoat on it.

**jzucker** · 05-20-2019, 07:15 AM

i looked at the emerald archtop and it's about $4k. For a few bucks more you can get a borys. I'm all for supporting a sustainable environment but come on...

**Jim Soloway** · 05-20-2019, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

i looked at the emerald archtop and it's about $4k. For a few bucks more you can get a borys. I'm all for supporting a sustainable environment but come on...

A. Those are not the archtop and these are no where near $4000.

B. This is not about sustaining the environment (although that's not a bad thing) it's about having a guitar that will be stable in Guadalajara Mexico where the climate and conditions seem to eat wood guitars.

**jzucker** · 05-20-2019, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

A. Those are not the archtop and these are no where near $4000.

B. This is not about sustaining the environment (although that's not a bad thing) it's about having a guitar that will be stable in Guadalajara Mexico where the climate and conditions seem to eat wood guitars.

I did read that but I was replying more in general with the headline you posted and in this group, the archtop might be an interesting alternative to a conventional wood archtop. I would like to buy an emerald flattop at some point but they are considerably less than the archtop.

**Jonah** · 05-20-2019, 09:09 AM

They have a beautiful design.. and probably that would work for electrics

But for acoustic and at a price of more than $1500... I don't know really.
With acoustic instruments I do not believe in anything but solid wood.
And just for travel/backup guitar it is imho too expensive.
Enya - I think it is plastic mostly? - would do this job for usd150.

**sjl** · 05-20-2019, 10:32 AM

I think you are looking for an excuse for having more guitars.

**Jim Soloway** · 05-20-2019, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by sjl

I think you are looking for an excuse for having more guitars.

Right now I only own one guitar, so having more is not all that unreasonable. On the other hand, I've sold two that I really loved and shipped them back north (one via a serious stint in rehab) because they clearly couldn't handle this environment and a watched a third self-destruct, literally.

**Jonah** · 05-20-2019, 11:06 AM

What about traditional plucked instruments? Do they have any locally? Do they survive it? What kind of woods would they use for it?

Just wondering.

Usually it is common for the regions with problematic climate conditions to try to make instruments from local lutherie to avoid some problems.
Of course not every problem can be solved that way.

**skykomishone** · 05-20-2019, 11:31 AM

Jim, I bought a Composite Acoustics guitar 2 years ago and am very pleased with it. I carry it on all my travel. It's been to the high desert several times and all over New Zealand for a month. No problems. Great neck and fretboard. Stable as can be. It's the only one of my guitars that doesn't need to be kept in a humidified room. My house has hydronic heat in the floor and is consistently in the 20's or even lower. My only complaint about it is that being all composite and small body the neck is the heaviest part and the strap button is on the heel, so it wants to rotate downward. I could probably solve that by using the headstock to attach the strap.
At any rate, sorry to hear about your wood archtops, and also, those Emerald guitars look great! I wonder if they're 'neck heavy' too? I'm glad I bought a composite guitar.
Carbon Fiber Archtop Guitars-20190520_083353-1-jpg

Carbon Fiber Archtop Guitars-20190520_083353-1-jpg

**lammie200** · 05-20-2019, 11:46 AM

El Capitan Ekoa Guitar - Blackbird Guitars

Savoy- Blackbird Guitars

There is a place a couple of blocks away that makes these. I have never been in to try one, however.

**Jim Soloway** · 05-20-2019, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by skykomishone

Jim, I bought a Composite Acoustics guitar 2 years ago and am very pleased with it. I carry it on all my travel. It's been to the high desert several times and all over New Zealand for a month. No problems. Great neck and fretboard. Stable as can be. It's the only one of my guitars that doesn't need to be kept in a humidified room. My house has hydronic heat in the floor and is consistently in the 20's or even lower. My only complaint about it is that being all composite and small body the neck is the heaviest part and the strap button is on the heel, so it wants to rotate downward. I could probably solve that by using the headstock to attach the strap.
At any rate, sorry to hear about your wood archtops, and also, those Emerald guitars look great! I wonder if they're 'neck heavy' too? I'm glad I bought a composite guitar.

I owned a Cargo for a while. Great little guitar and I wish I had kept it. They are a LOT more expensive now than when I got mine.

Carbon Graphite is a really useful material for guitars. It doesn't sound like wood but it does have a sound of it own that I find very pleasing. The real beauty of dealing with Emerald is that they're still small enough to deal with custom requests. On the other hand, they're big enough to have some economy of scale and a mature product line. I really think this is going to work out pretty well.

**DRS** · 05-20-2019, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

A. Those are not the archtop and these are no where near $4000.

B. This is not about sustaining the environment (although that's not a bad thing) it's about having a guitar that will be stable in Guadalajara Mexico where the climate and conditions seem to eat wood guitars.

Carbon fibre seems the only choice with your climate issues.
I happen to think they are beautiful guitars.

**Woody Sound** · 05-20-2019, 03:12 PM

Jim, there must be others down there in the same boat (climate), how do they cope?

**Jim Soloway** · 05-20-2019, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Woody Sound

Jim, there must be others down there in the same boat (climate), how do they cope?

For the locals, it mostly by playing locally built classicals with baseball bat necks made from local woods. I'm not really connected to the local electric players.

EDIT: As I think about it a bit more, I suspect it has something to do with where the guitar has acclimated and where it was set up. A guitar that has been allowed to sit in this climate for a while and dry out before it's been setup logically ought to do better than one that's coming from a different climate. The fingerboard will have already shrunk, the top will have already dried out etc. But the Soloette and Forshage had a really tough time here. My Gosling does fine but it's done fine in some ridiculous weather conditions at both extremes (plus the neck is loaded with graphite). There's also a really good metal/prog player here but he's playing Strandbergs and I'm pretty sure those are also graphite loaded necks.

**Jonah** · 05-20-2019, 04:36 PM

My only complaint about it is that being all composite and small body the neck is the heaviest part and the strap button is on the heel, so it wants to rotate downward. I could probably solve that by using the headstock to attach the strap.

I used to fix another short strap at the bootm button (or just a cord) and sit on it or fis it pants's belt, it pulls the bootm end downwards. It is common with my lutes that always overweigh at the head but I used it with one of the guitars too.

**DRS** · 05-20-2019, 06:23 PM

Emerald also makes archtops
Emerald Kestrel Archtop - Emerald Guitars

**child as audience** · 05-20-2019, 06:36 PM

Yeah, there’s the $4K.

That’s a new model the just added, and to be honest - I like the specs of the x10 better provided you can get a tone control like Jim has coming.

**Greentone** · 05-20-2019, 07:18 PM

Jim,

I think your decision makes a ton of sense for the climate in which you have chosen to make your new home. Carbon is going to be nearly impervious to changes in season in that region.

It is really tough to move guitars from one climate zone to another. I remember all the people who gravitated to Brazilian guitars when the craze for the music of Jobim and others took hold. Well, those are some great instruments. Trouble is, they turn to splinters in the North American climate. (This goes double for the wonderful Del Vecchio guitars, also of Brazil. They have a heartbreakingly haunting voice, but don't survive the US weather.) Meanwhile, our (US) guitars take a stone soul beating in Asia. In the Philippines, Japan, etc., Gibson archtops can develop binding rot, neck set problems, etc., at a more rapid rate than back in the States. Tough to generalize, but guitars seem to like their points of origin.

Poly finished guitars seem to defy this observation, IME.

**gitman** · 05-21-2019, 08:37 AM

Have you considered an Ovation/Adamas model ? The carbon fibre top should behave just fine in your part of Mexico....

**Jim Soloway** · 05-21-2019, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by gitman

Have you considered an Ovation/Adamas model ? The carbon fibre top should behave just fine in your part of Mexico....

I played one many years ago and loved it. That was my first experience with composite guitars.

The reason I'm working with Emerald on this is that I needed to replace my travel guitar and I really like the idea of the X7. It's not only a travel guitar, but with a 24" scale length, I can use it as a guitar to keep in standard tuning, something I really need for some projects I have planned. The X10 was really an afterthought resulting as much from a small financial windfall as any real need. They've also integrated the Krivo thinline humbuckers into their guitars and, with the right setup, that means that I can use these guitars as substitutes for electric archtops. That's really my plan. To me, they won't even really be acoustics. They'll be strung with light flat wound strings and setup for the way I play. Most of the time, that means through an amp and getting them to sound as close to my typical sounds as possible. And I think I should be able to get them pretty close.

**bohemian46** · 05-21-2019, 01:42 PM

Have you been to Paracho? Some fine classical guitars come out of there.
Any remote possibility there is an arch-top maker there?

Just a thought.

**Jim Soloway** · 05-21-2019, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by bohemian46

Have you been to Paracho? Some fine classical guitars come out of there.
Any remote possibility there is an arch-top maker there?

Just a thought.

I have not been to Paracho but I found a builder from Paracho here in Guaddalajara. He builds some lovely classicals but I don't play classical and don't really have any ambition to play one. He and his partner had designed their own take on an archtop that was quite lovely. I bought one and it sounded great but it immediately began having serious structural issues and after about 10 days the top literally imploded (they gave me a full refund). That's one of the things that got me seriously thinking about graphite (along with the problems with my Soloette).

I also found what appears to be a very good archtop builder but the price really made it to much of a gamble.

Honestly at this point, I feel really comfortable with the idea of these two guitars from Emerald. I've owned one of their guitars in the past along with two Composite Acoustics guitars. I've played several other graphite based guitars and enjoyed most of them and we used graphite inserts in all of the guitars that we built. Conceptually, I'm a great believer in the materials and a fan of modern designs that are based in legitimate improvements of traditional concepts and I think Emerald are doing a great job of that. So this is not really a question of "should I" but rather a declaration of "I am". The orders are i and the deposits paid. Now it's just a matter of waiting until the first guitar ships and that should actually be pretty soon.

**Flat** · 05-21-2019, 02:34 PM

Best of luck with your carbon fiber experiment, Jim! I hope one day you'll let us know your thoughts after you get to know your new instruments.

I clicked around on youtube looking at Emerald guitars. I know this is not the model you chose, and apparently the wood veneer top adds quite a bit to the price, but I thought this was a very interesting and quite beautiful instrument. The cocobolo veneer top warms the whole thing up cosmetically, imho. (I doubt it has any effect acoustically).

It's somehow heartening to know that one day, even if most of the trees are gone, humans will still be able to make fine guitars, if our species is still around.