Strat + overdrive issues (non-jazz content)

**newsense** · 09-28-2018, 05:46 AM

Yes - I know this isn't strictly about jazz guitar, but there are plenty of current or ex-strat players here whose opinions I respect, so I thought I would raise this problem.

After many happy years of playing humbucker equipped guitars, plus a recent pleasant diversion into Tele country, I decided that I would try to understand why so many great players choose the Strat as their preferred instrument. I'm mainly thinking blues, but also the whim was heavily influenced by listening to players such as Mark Lettieri, who get a fantastic range of tones from their instruments.

The recent launch of the new Fender Player Series was the catalyst to actually make a purchase and so I have been experimenting with a maple board, SSS example for the last few months. I find the clean tones from the neck pickup really very attractive, probably far better than I was expecting for a low to mid price instrument. However, when I add some overdrive to try to get a fatter tone or the singing sustain that is so well used by blues players (e.g. Matt Schofield), my tone becomes really weird, particularly in the upper frets. It sounds like I have plugged into a really unmusical chorus or phaser pedal, with some added slow (true) tremolo (i.e. volume modulation). The notes somehow sound out of tune and the guitar isvirtually unplayable. I've tried two different OD pedals, with the same result, but switch out the overdrive and it goes back to the great clean Strat sound. Substitute my Tele or SA2200 with the same overdrive pedals and everything works well, as expected.

What am I doing wrong ? I have tried to eliminate the possibility of fret buzz - but surely I would hear that in the clean tones anyway. The "tremolo" system seems well adjusted, but I can't help thinking that what I am hearing originates in the springs. But if so, why ?

Has anybody else ever experienced this problem ?

**rpguitar** · 09-28-2018, 06:19 AM

Could be Stratitis. Give this a read:
What is "Strat-itis"? | Seymour Duncan

**newsense** · 09-28-2018, 07:31 AM

Thanks rp.

Stratitis - sounds like I might need antibiotics !

I hadn't considered pickup heights - which haven't been adjusted since purchase. I'll be getting my screwdriver out ASAP.

**DRS** · 09-28-2018, 10:23 AM

Stratitis is my vote too

Strats sound best when the pickups are close to the pickguard

I have the neck pickup about 1/16" above the pickguard and the bridge about 3/16". The middle is about 1/8".
Yes, the output is lower than a humbucker guitar but that is the strat sound. Turn up your amp.

**fep** · 09-28-2018, 10:30 AM

After you cure any Strat-itis...

Try: guitar to overdrive pedal to another overdrive pedal to amp that also has a touch of overdrive. Also experiment with reducing the guitars volume a bit and the tone a lot.

**blille** · 09-28-2018, 11:41 AM

Tell us more about the pedals and amp you are using. When you change a significant part of your gear you need to tweak other parts of the chain IME. It can also be that you don't like that particular pickup.

**John A.** · 09-28-2018, 11:49 AM

It's hard to diagnose without knowing more about your what OD and amp you're using, settings, etc. But I will say in general humbuckers sound OK with an OD going into a quiet (bedroom volume) amp, but single coils generally don't. Strats kind of need the amp to be cooking a bit.

John

**lammie200** · 09-28-2018, 12:08 PM

I have the bass side of my Strat pickups lower by 2-3 turns than the treble side. Also, I have an Earvana shelf nut on it. It is nice to see the needle on my tuner stay relatively straight on all the notes up the fretboard.

**vintagelove** · 09-28-2018, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by newsense

Yes - I know this isn't strictly about jazz guitar, but there are plenty of current or ex-strat players here whose opinions I respect, so I thought I would raise this problem.

After many happy years of playing humbucker equipped guitars, plus a recent pleasant diversion into Tele country, I decided that I would try to understand why so many great players choose the Strat as their preferred instrument. I'm mainly thinking blues, but also the whim was heavily influenced by listening to players such as Mark Lettieri, who get a fantastic range of tones from their instruments.

The recent launch of the new Fender Player Series was the catalyst to actually make a purchase and so I have been experimenting with a maple board, SSS example for the last few months. I find the clean tones from the neck pickup really very attractive, probably far better than I was expecting for a low to mid price instrument. However, when I add some overdrive to try to get a fatter tone or the singing sustain that is so well used by blues players (e.g. Matt Schofield), my tone becomes really weird, particularly in the upper frets. It sounds like I have plugged into a really unmusical chorus or phaser pedal, with some added slow (true) tremolo (i.e. volume modulation). The notes somehow sound out of tune and the guitar isvirtually unplayable. I've tried two different OD pedals, with the same result, but switch out the overdrive and it goes back to the great clean Strat sound. Substitute my Tele or SA2200 with the same overdrive pedals and everything works well, as expected.

What am I doing wrong ? I have tried to eliminate the possibility of fret buzz - but surely I would hear that in the clean tones anyway. The "tremolo" system seems well adjusted, but I can't help thinking that what I am hearing originates in the springs. But if so, why ?

Has anybody else ever experienced this problem ?

Change the strings.

When mine get old, the EB unwound strings produce that almost “two note” effect. It will only cost you a couple buck and I’ll bet you a pick it solves your problem. The distortion is causing compression which brings out the phenomenon that is present clean, but lower in perceived volume.

Good luck!!!

**Gitfiddler** · 09-28-2018, 03:43 PM

First of all, I feel your Strat-induced pain. I too have a love-hate relationship with them, and for exactly the reasons stated above.

Some players find that compressors help bring out the best (i.e. fatter tone and sustain) in single coil guitars like Strats. The problem is finding the right compressor that works for you and your rig...and your budget. I use a MXR Dyna Comp. Its OK, but there are a ton of more expensive pedals out there like the Electro Harmonix Black Finger.

Here's a pretty good demo of that pedal used with a Strat:

**newsense** · 09-28-2018, 04:40 PM

Many thanks to all for all the great advice.

My rig takes me via a Wampler Ego Compressor, which is great for adding sparkle to the clean tones, then to either a Wampler Tumnus or Euphoria drive and then either (i) into a Two Notes Le Clean preamp plus stereo delay and reverb and a CabDryVr cab emulator to a mixer and phones or (ii) straight into a JC-22 amp. The problem occurs independent of what comes after the OD pedal and is similar through either OD pedal.

I am favouring the pickup height solution at present, but won't be able to test the theory until Monday evening.

**sgosnell** · 09-28-2018, 04:53 PM

Changing the pickup height is cheap (free), easy, and entirely reversible. I play with it on every guitar I buy, and it's not unusual for me to do it on the same guitars over time.

**cosmic gumbo** · 09-28-2018, 10:27 PM

Overdrive pedals are engineered for tube amps, because that's what they do....overdrive the tubes a bit or a lot to put some grit or crunch into your sound. They usually sound like crap in a solidstate rig because they really can't do what they were designed for, overdriving solidstate is not musical.

If you want some dirt in a solidstate rig, you really need to add a distortion pedal, which emulates overdriven tubes.

Wampler uses a Dr. Z amp for their demos, which is sort of a boutique fender tweed design.

**newsense** · 09-29-2018, 04:58 AM

Thanks again everyone.

Just a couple more comments to answer some of the responses which I didn't address in my last post.

The strings are new. I replaced the factory strings (9's) with D'A 10's and then adjusted the tremolo claw until the bridge plate was parallel to the body.

My rig is actually tube based, I rarely go direct into the JC-22 from the OD pedals. The "Le Clean" preamp I use is 12AX7 based with both blackface and tweed voicings (Two notes Audio Engineering - Le Clean Preamp Pedal), so the OD pedals are driving a tube front end.

I'll post an update on Monday to let you know how it goes with changing pickup heights.

**vintagelove** · 09-29-2018, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by newsense

Thanks again everyone.

Just a couple more comments to answer some of the responses which I didn't address in my last post.

The strings are new. I replaced the factory strings (9's) with D'A 10's and then adjusted the tremolo claw until the bridge plate was parallel to the body.

My rig is actually tube based, I rarely go direct into the JC-22 from the OD pedals. The "Le Clean" preamp I use is 12AX7 based with both blackface and tweed voicings (Two notes Audio Engineering - Le Clean Preamp Pedal), so the OD pedals are driving a tube front end.

I'll post an update on Monday to let you know how it goes with changing pickup heights.

Did you have the problem with the old strings?

If your other options don’t fix it, spend $5 on strings before selling the guitar.

**cosmic gumbo** · 09-29-2018, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by newsense

My rig is actually tube based, I rarely go direct into the JC-22 from the OD pedals. The "Le Clean" preamp I use is 12AX7 based with both blackface and tweed voicings (Two notes Audio Engineering - Le Clean Preamp Pedal), so the OD pedals are driving a tube front end.
.

Nothing with one tube is authentic tube engineering, it's more of a gimmick.

**blille** · 09-29-2018, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

Nothing with one tube is authentic tube engineering, it's more of a gimmick.

I agree With this as a general rule but there are some that are the exception. The OP's might be.

**newsense** · 09-30-2018, 05:30 AM

Hmm.. I must admit that having owned a fair number of all-tube amps over the past couple of decades (all of which are too loud for my current situation), I was also sceptical before purchasing the Two Notes preamp, but after playing it for a few months, it does seem to be the real deal.

**MrGiraffe** · 09-30-2018, 08:50 AM

I struggle with strats too. I found that pickup height is key plus overdrive type. I first go into an 808 as a cleanish boost and from there into another drive pedal (I love the old black box eternity). The 808 gives it that fat mid push and pulls back the lows while smoothing out the highs. Another option would be to wire it up with the Clapton style mid-boost circuit.

**blille** · 09-30-2018, 10:12 AM

I use a strat into a 5e3 or a Princeton, usually at breakup and I have no issues to get great tones (IMHO) with a couple of Klones, TSs and fuzzes. I'm not familiar with the particular one you mentioned, sorry. IME the key is to have the tube amp at breakup or to LOVE your pedal tone.

**newsense** · 10-04-2018, 02:44 AM

Problem solved - turned out to be the pickup height problem (Stratitis) as correctly diagnosed by rpguitar in post #2.

However, I'm still a long way from bonding with this guitar.

**rpguitar** · 10-04-2018, 06:33 AM

Glad you solved the problem!

Ironically, this is at a time when I am bonding more than ever with my own partscaster Strat. I have been looking at the new Player series, especially the HSS version with pau ferro board. What things do you like and not like about yours?

**newsense** · 10-04-2018, 04:51 PM

As I said to the guitar: "Its not you, its me". The guitar itself is absolutely fine - great build quality for the price. I like the neck, the action is good and the colour (Tidepool) is fantastic. Perhaps I'm just not used to getting the tones I want out of a strat. It may only be a question of time - or it may need a pickup swap - or maybe I will always prefer the tones from my semi, my archtop and my Tele.

So, don't let my experience put you off, as I believe the Player series is well thought out and nicely put together.

**rNeil** · 10-04-2018, 05:12 PM

I've always lusted for both a Strat and an SG. Have a Tele and a Lyle jazzbox, which was a Japanese made L5 body mold using laminate construction with a 175-length 24.75" neck. Now fitted with an early PAF stickered neck pup.

Tele is from around '71 or so, CBS era.

I've played Strats of friends and in stores countless times.

Personal experience?

The lower cost Strats just have to have different pups and/or pots/switches/wiring.

I've played several at a store at one sitting, and while the look and feel was similar, swapping out price level gits with the same amp settings did not sound the same. Not even close.

There was a hard to describe ... edge? ... to the sound especially higher up the neck and at brighter settings. It was just never as smooth a sound as the top level Strats. I even thought about buying a cheaper one and immediately junking the pups, but haven't quite done so.

So, past Stratitus, that could just not have the pups you're looking for ...

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