How does acoustic resonance change the amplified tone?

[ccroft]

Put simply, I’d say the Lehman has more of the classic Gibson L5 type sound, while the Eastman is more Benedetto-ish. Most apparent acoustically, but still there through the amp. And that’s one of the more interesting things about this pair. It’s generally accepted that a floating pickup will sound more ‘acoustic’. In this case the set pickup has more of the over-tone harmonic thing going on.

To me it kinda shows the importance of acoustic resonance to the electric sound. Grez (thanks for the like!) has a video demonstrating different body resonances on his site. The Lehman has a lower note than the Eastman. The Lehman top is around 1 or 1.5 mm thicker at the f-hole. They’re both X braced.

When I got the Lehman I asked my wife to compare. I was a little shocked when she said Eastman sounds bigger. She went on to say that it has a ‘wider more open sound’. I thought the Lehman was bigger due to it’s more mid-range focussed sound: the fundamental note being played seems louder.

I think they both sound great and are basically interchangeable. Probably I play the Lehman more, for whatever that’s worth. I think it has a little more sustain, possibly due to it’s slightly beefier un-laminated neck. And I like to take every opportunity to see and enjoy that big-leaf maple back.

Note that I’ve never had the opportunity to play either an L5 or a Benedetto. I keep saying I’m gonna go down to Seattle to Joe V’s place one day and try a bunch of different instruments. But I’m afraid of what might happen to the credit card…

[medblues]

Surprisingly no one mentioned the microphonic (piezo) properties of the traditional magneto-electric guitar pickups. If you remove the strings and hit the pickup with a non-ferromagnetic object (your pick, your fingers etc) microphonic pickups will "report" this to the amp depending on the force of the hit. Some pickups will even "pick up" your voice. Even when potted with wax or paraffin, this will decrease a lot but some minimal microphonicity may remain. That is why intuitively or consciously, blues and jazz players like vintage (non-potted) or newly manufactured non-potted pickups whereas metal players like potted pickups. Blues/jazz players like the piezo (acoustic) contribution from non-potted pickups (even with non-hollow body guitars) because they have "character" "mojo" "warmth" "air" etc. whereas metal players want maximum sustain that comes from solid body and potted pickups which also feedback much less at ridiculously high gain levels.

Every factor affects the tone that we hear acoustically and the tone that comes out of the guitar amplifier at varying levels and the difference(s) can be demonstrated with oscilloscope tracings or microphone recordings but whether someone can hear the difference from a faraway distance where acoustic sound has decayed and (especially when blinded to the type of rig) is a different (and contentious - even here) discussion.

[sgosnell]

TC Electronics makes use of this microphonic property to send their toneprints to their pedals through smartphones. You hold your phone near the selected pickup, tap the send button on the screen, and the new toneprint is sent to the pedal wirelessly, through audible sounds. You don't need to touch the pickup, but you do need to have the speaker close to it. It works fine with every pickup I've tried it with.

[ccroft]

Surprisingly no one mentioned the microphonic (piezo) properties of the traditional magneto-electric guitar pickups...

This is definitely a thing. Some pickups more than others. I had a 60's Casino that was almost a radio. You could shout into the pickup and hear it through the amp. I also had one of those sound hole DeArmonds in a flat-top that was the same.

The KA pickups on these 2 are encased in solid epoxy. I have tried their acoustic sensitivity. Seems to me that with these pickups the amount of signal that would come by this route would be so tiny in comparison to the magnetic signal as to have pretty much no overall effect.

It's still something though, and I'll bet the original Chinese KA I swapped out of the Eastman was much more microphone-like.

[Cunamara]

Don't use those teflon string saver saddles, those cut the high frequency overtones and you cant dial them back in. I have them and i know firsthand.

Or use them if you want to not have that high frequency spike that metal TOM saddles provide. IMHO the String Savers sound closer to a wood saddle than to a metal saddle. On some guitars I like that, on some I don't.

[Robertkoa]

You know where you will really hear the dofferences ...obviously recording but also
with the better Modelers like the Fractal stuff even on Gigs ..not that a nice Amp won't also but even moreso with an FRFR setup...

What's so cool about Kriesberg and a lot of the new Guys is they bring their Studio sound to the audience.


PaulN re Strats ..you are right but damn...why can't the CNC Guy who cuts the necks get the number for the CNC guy who cuts the bodies and get them to 1/256 inch tolerance ?

They make147 different Strat Variations
Put a Coconut Logo on it ...it's a Hawaiian Strat ...
One of them should feature a tight pocket...

Or a few Set Neck Models...Fender really coasts on their 50's and 60's reputation...

[sgosnell]

It's all money. Using a bolt-on neck is cheaper, and easier for minimally-trained employees. It saves Fender millions of dollars per year, and that means it will continue. Using closer tolerances means it takes longer to install necks in bodies, and the people doing it need more training. That means more money, and so that won't change either. Leo Fender intentionally designed his guitars to be easily and cheaply built from off the shelf lumber, not to sound good but to sound good enough, while being as cheap to build as possible. Fender doesn't make great guitars, just guitars that are good enough to sell. That's genius capitalism.

[pauln]

In another forum someone had a refret done and the Strat came back sounding dead... he was suspecting that the tech had swapped (stolen) his pickups and was about to open it up to look inside and investigate. I mentioned the neck pop thing, he tried it, and both the guitar and the tech were saved.

Adding the neck pop procedure to the end of the manufacturing process would add cost - loosening the neck plate, tightening the neck plate, probably readjusting the tuning and intonation. Guitar shops should know about and do all this and more before sale, or the customer can bring a screwdriver and verify... I just wish more knew about it... it has saved a lot of guitars.

[Robertkoa]

It's all money. Using a bolt-on neck is cheaper, and easier for minimally-trained employees. It saves Fender millions of dollars per year, and that means it will continue. Using closer tolerances means it takes longer to install necks in bodies, and the people doing it need more training. That means more money, and so that won't change either. Leo Fender intentionally designed his guitars to be easily and cheaply built from off the shelf lumber, not to sound good but to sound good enough, while being as cheap to build as possible. Fender doesn't make great guitars, just guitars that are good enough to sell. That's genius capitalism.

Yes! You are right on here lol.

" Fender doesn't build good guitars, but they are good enough. "

"Fender - if you can play better than Eric Johnson - we will build you a better Guitar- if not -screw you - but we mean this in a supportive way ."

"Go beyond Hendrix with the new Double Reverse Strat - we reversed the Neck like Jimi then reversed it AGAIN - Double Reverse Strat ."

.

[GNAPPI]

Maple body or mahogany? Spruce or maple top? Carved, pressed, or laminate. Maple neck or Mahogany, or 3 piece Mahogany/maple/mahogany... Bridge? rosewood, ebony or metal... Nut? I'll stop right there.

Why is it that so many similarly constructed fully hollow body gits from different end even the SAME maker with the same pups sound so different?

I don't know and I don't give a damn, all I know is I have some I just can't believe that the previous owner let go, I'm glad I have them, and I hope the PO's quest for tone led them to satisfaction.

[Robertkoa]

Well...it is a bit difficult to assess precisely
why they sound so different when you assess a certain model.

10 different ES 335s will sound somewhat similar ,generally to an audience.

But to us ...the finer points of each one would reveal themselves as we play them.

My favorite one ,aside from playability would have less high end , I would prefer a deeper tone with less brightness because I don't like to turn the treble down IF I can get it from a warmer Guitar and warmer strings...

I like a lot of sustain ...and I like Jescar Frets because they ring more generally from the slightest finger vibrato.

Although a 335 would be too thin...lol.
Unfortunately the 1.75" depth for Semis has become some type of a "standard".

I personally don't care about Guitars for Guitar sake but for Tones.

I found out early on that a deep long sustaining guitar - I could make it plinky and transparent sounding by coil cutting the pickups and even using dual coil stacks with a Parallel Switch ...

H-S-H with coil cut switches and a parallel
switch for the stack...so I could get a fat Santana-ish sound , a fat Carlton-ish sound and a few Strat tones, and Richenbacher tones etc.

But to make a plinky sounding Guitar fat sounding was more difficult.

So now I want something like a 2.5" thick
7/8 ths hollow with a block probably under the Bridge only , probably 16" wide stop tailpiece...H-S-H etc. that will flirt with a
175 tone in it's fattest mode etc.

I read about the Sadowsky Semi - and it turns out the 335 and all similar Guitars ..
divide the Air chambers into 2 halves rather than one larger chamber and raise the primary resonant frequency of the Guitar, making it sound thinner than it might otherwise sound...

So the wood , the construction and a lot of factors influence the sound.

As I have said earlier - strings vibrate and the pickups ' report ' everything including
sub vibration of the strings and multiple harmonic nodes across the strings.

So as the strings get worn which we can barely see - I assume the subtle vibrations
the divisions lengthwise that produce the very highest upper harmonics change in amplitide to inaudible and BAM they don't come out of the Amp or Mixer either.
Some Guitars are mellowed and deepend by the air in the body influencing the Strings.

IF you can hear the difference unplugged-you will probably hear it plugged in=simple.

As wood ages it tends to do the opposite of what strings do - it often becomes more resonant somehow influencing even Electric Guitars tones although good Builders build in a certain direction like Grez and other modern astute Luthiers are doing .

So pick the type you like...then the sub type you like , the character.

Generally it's type of construction first , then subtle fine tuning with woods- wood types are unpredictable somewhat but there are general trends..

Then there are weird exceptions -I call it the any given Sunday rule...where some Guitars just sound different from the 'Norm' but that can't be predicted ...it can sometimes be found.

Pick the general type then find the variation you like.

For me when I assess an Electric - acoustic- unplugged is generally first-

Weirdly - some Guitars intonate better than others.
"Robert with a proper setup ALL guitars will intonate well ."

Apparently yes but some will intonate better and have a more pure sound where the overtones just seem sweeter and line up more consonant on complex chords .

"Robert my Grandfather has been a Luthier for 700 years and he knows it's not true ."

Lol...it sometimes is true ..more accurate fretwork etc etc..longer scale can help sometimes- I am not sure -some Guitars sound more on Tune and more uniform across strings and the high E and B strings sound deeper that's the package right there...for me at least.

I don't like to have a lot of Guitars so ..IF I can get it all from 1 or 2 that's better.