Cheap touring guitar to get close to my Gibson ES-175

**joe2758** · 08-22-2018, 09:48 PM

get a guitar that costs 3 times as much as the 175, then leave that at home and play the 175 for everyhing

**joe2758** · 08-22-2018, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

(As well as more Blue Notey tones.)

wait a second are you tall?

**christianm77** · 08-23-2018, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by omphalopsychos

Dude. Just get an ES 125 already.

I don’t want to check it lol. I need something I can fly with. Otherwise excellent advice.

**christianm77** · 08-23-2018, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by D.G.

I play very similar stuff, though without a drummer. I like to be pretty bright cause that's what the dancers cue off of. I find I get a bit more "crack" out of a p90 for rhythm and gain a more solid feel on the bass strings when soloing.

So I'd recommend maybe an Epi and swap out the neck pup with a humbucker size p90. I like Fralin, but I'm sure there are excellent winders in the UK. Or, if noisy electricity is a concern, you could try a Duncan pRail with a push-pull switch to go between p90 and parallel humbucker.

Well that makes me think of the curve ball of something like a Godin kingpin

**Rob MacKillop** · 08-23-2018, 02:50 AM

Well, I'd sell you my Peerless Leela for £1000. Great guitar. It's been sitting in its case under the bed, though, as I just - I'll finally admit it - have too many guitars. Here's a second hand one at Guitar Village, to give you an idea of what they sell for 2nd-hand, and what it looks like: Peerless Leela Ruby Red (Pre Owned, EC) - Guitar Village

**Rob MacKillop** · 08-23-2018, 02:59 AM

Here it is straight into a hard-disk recorder, but it sounds better through an amp, but you'll get an idea of the sound...

**Little Jay** · 08-23-2018, 03:44 AM

Just a question: you want a cheaper guitar for touring. You mean touring abroad and flying with it? In that case I understand, I would be reluctant to fly with a ‘68 Gibson (or with my ‘50 ES-125 for that matter).

But if you just mean gigging and touring nationally I would just get a good hard case à la Hiscox for example.

I would be tempted to go the Epiphone route with better pu’s (T-tops are great! Or a stamped pattent number, also great). And while at it: Epiphone uses plastic nuts I think, replacing it with a bone one could be beneficial. And Epiphone wiring harnesses use very thin wiring, that could use an upgrade as well. They do come with big size alpha pots nowadays, those are fine and can be reused. You can wire it ‘50ies-style’ then, I think your ‘68 will be wired that way too. Both guitars will react more similar to the volume and tone knobs then.

It’s just too bad that the Epiphone’s body and f-hole shape are slightly off compared to an ES-175. But that’s only cosmetic.

**Rob MacKillop** · 08-23-2018, 03:57 AM

Having tried both, I can assure you, Christian, that the Leela is in a different league altogether from the Epi. I know I might say that seeing as I'm offering mine for sale, but it's true.

**QAman** · 08-23-2018, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Hi everyone,

I got my '68 ES175D a while back and while it's not a terribly valuable instrument and insured, I do really love it and would be devastated to have anything happen to it.

It seems that whatever amp I plug it into, it has a lovely mellow, yet punchy mid range sound. I guess that's Gibson for you.

As a result I would like to get a touring guitar that'll get me in the ball park tonally. that I can check and not be too worried about getting smashed up should that be unlucky enough to happen.

I gather the pickups are probably T-types and not that highly thought of... However I like them!

This guitar is RESONANT - if anything halfway towards a Godin Kingpin as opposed a modern Gibson 175. I also like this and would like to have that quality if possible.

A few options:
Buy a new/used cheapish guitar
Buy a new/used cheapish guitar and swap the pickup
Fit a new pickup into the Samick built Ibanez AF-85 I have collecting dust.

What do you think? Budget would probably be around 1000USD which translates to around 1000GBP it seems in UK prices. Cheap and cheerful is best. 3 is obviously the cheap sensible option, but hey where's the fun in that?

PS - the used market is a lot smaller in the UK than the states, but I'm open to used, probably sensible in fact.

Based on the aforementioned - perhaps you
should try an Eastman AR 371 , plenty available and under your budget.

**christianm77** · 08-23-2018, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

Just a question: you want a cheaper guitar for touring. You mean touring abroad and flying with it? In that case I understand, I would be reluctant to fly with a ‘68 Gibson (or with my ‘50 ES-125 for that matter).

But if you just mean gigging and touring nationally I would just get a good hard case à la Hiscox for example.

I would be tempted to go the Epiphone route with better pu’s (T-tops are great! Or a stamped pattent number, also great). And while at it: Epiphone uses plastic nuts I think, replacing it with a bone one could be beneficial. And Epiphone wiring harnesses use very thin wiring, that could use an upgrade as well. They do come with big size alpha pots nowadays, those are fine and can be reused. You can wire it ‘50ies-style’ then, I think your ‘68 will be wired that way too. Both guitars will react more similar to the volume and tone knobs then.

It’s just too bad that the Epiphone’s body and f-hole shape are slightly off compared to an ES-175. But that’s only cosmetic.

I have no problem playing my ‘68 on UK gigs. It’s just when I need to fly.

I’m also planning on getting a good case I’m not sure whether to go Hiscox or BAM at the minute. The latter is light and super sexy, but I don’t think it’s as protective as a hiscox half the price by the looks of it... anyway another thread :-)

**wmachine** · 08-23-2018, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Oh really? I didn't know that about the build re: Epiphoner. I think there might be one in London still. It has Gibson pickups, right?

Originally Posted by christianm77

What if I get the Epi and prefer it? :-)

Originally Posted by sgosnell

The Epi ES175 Premium has Gibson pickups, and mine is as good as a Gibson, IMO. I really can't imagine it being much better, or sounding better. The only reason I don't play mine all the time is that I've reached the point where a full-depth guitar is just too uncomfortable for me. I guess I could sell it, but I won't. It was a present from my children, so it will stay until the end, whether or not I play it every day. If I were in the market for an ES175 type guitar, that's the first model I would look at. And if you get the Epi and prefer it, profit! Gibsons have a market.

Just want to stress that the EPI ES-175 to get is the "Premium". The earlier ES-175s (non-Premiums) are not the same and don't have the Gibson '57 Classic pups.
The "slim taper" neck may be a problem for some too. But I'm impressed with mine and though on the thin side, the neck is still fine with me. But I can still play badly no matter, no matter what the neck size is.

**christianm77** · 08-23-2018, 07:55 AM

Slim taper is exactly what I have on my guitar

**Tal_175** · 08-23-2018, 08:07 AM

I tried some vintage ES-175 copy Guild models at a store the other day. They were very resonant and fun to play. There were mostly around your price point.
Here is one. This one is newer model I think. Not sure how they compare to the 60's models I tried:
Guild CE100D Capri | Carbon Music 100 | Reverb

**lawson-stone** · 08-23-2018, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Oh really? I didn't know that about the build re: Epiphoner. I think there might be one in London still. It has Gibson pickups, right?

Yes the "Premium" ES175 has the Classic 57 pickups.

As to build, here are the weights of my 175-is guitars:

Gibson ES175 Figured Sunburst 2016 3.5 kg
Gibson ES175D VOS 1959 2.9 kg
Epiphone ES175 Premium 2.9 kg

So just on weight, the epiphone is more like the VOS model, and actually sounds a bit more like it too, to my ears.

**hotpepper01** · 08-23-2018, 08:42 AM

I would choose to perform the same way as you practise Take your ES175 out and keep an eye on it. Before, in the breaks and especially afterwards. I take my L5 also to the shows. Just stay with it as much as possible. Take turns with your bandmates for taking a break, one has overwatch duty...

**christianm77** · 08-23-2018, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by hotpepper01

I would choose to perform the same way as you practise Take your ES175 out and keep an eye on it. Before, in the breaks and especially afterwards. I take my L5 also to the shows. Just stay with it as much as possible. Take turns with your bandmates for taking a break, one has overwatch duty...

I think you misunderstand. I don’t want to take the instrument on an airline.

**christianm77** · 08-23-2018, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Yes the "Premium" ES175 has the Classic 57 pickups.

As to build, here are the weights of my 175-is guitars:

Gibson ES175 Figured Sunburst 2016 3.5 kg
Gibson ES175D VOS 1959 2.9 kg
Epiphone ES175 Premium 2.9 kg

So just on weight, the epiphone is more like the VOS model, and actually sounds a bit more like it too, to my ears.

No bad thing if you ask me

**lawson-stone** · 08-23-2018, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

No bad thing if you ask me

I totally agree! I love my VOS 1959 guitar and it's sound, and I was delighted that the Epiphone came so close. I know that swapping the nut out and the wiring harness theoretically could help, but for gigging I don't know if it would matter. The sound (to me) is already so close and good that I don't know if the improvement (if any) would be worth the trouble.

Better guitars you will likely find, but this one is often found for a very low price. I paid something like US $450 for mine brand new.

You might also like an older Epiphone Zephyr Regent but you'd want to switch out the pickup, for sure.

**TedBPhx** · 08-23-2018, 10:07 AM

I’ve heard, read, imagined that when GC blew out the last of the Epi Premiums at give away prices, less than 500, some nefarious opportunists replaced the pups with lookalikes and made a profit selling as separates.

**Little Jay** · 08-23-2018, 10:13 AM

Ah yes, an expendable instrument too fly with, I can relate to that!

There’s also the option of going extremely cheap: an Ibanez AF55 for £240. As a matter of fact, I am taking mine out tomorrow night instead of my ES-125 since I have to play on an open boat on a canal and the forecasts say chance of rain and even thunder.... another circumstance not really fitted for your priced vintage instrument.

And to be honest: the Ibanez captures about 90% of the ES-125’s vibe! But granted, I had to replace pickups, electronics, bridge and tailpiece for that. I had those laying around but even purchased new it stays well under a 1000 (closer too 500 actually).

**Greentone** · 08-23-2018, 10:42 AM

I think Lawson's recommendation of the Epiphone 175 Premium is about the best bet. Great sound and playability, it's available, and you won't lose sleep over a scratch or ding.

**wzpgsr** · 08-23-2018, 10:42 AM

Eastman AR371 with a humbucker-sized P90 sounds very similar to my mid-50s ES-125. Its a very affordable guitar—US $500 used.

My Aria Pro II Herb Ellis definitely has more of the ES-175 thunk than either the AR371 or the ES-125. But it’s surprisingly heavy and not very resonant acoustically.

**Greentone** · 08-23-2018, 10:45 AM

The Aria Pro II PE175 was so good that Herb Ellis subbed it for his ES-175 for years.

It's quite a guitar.

**Tal_175** · 08-23-2018, 10:59 AM

There is nothing sexier on a guitar than a gig ding.
Transportation damage on the other hand is different.
Someone who a friend of mine gigged with had her 17. century viola get completely destroyed by an Italian Airline. That's considerably less sexy.

**christianm77** · 08-23-2018, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by wzpgsr

Eastman AR371 with a humbucker-sized P90 sounds very similar to my mid-50s ES-125. Its a very affordable guitar—US $500 used.

My Aria Pro II Herb Ellis definitely has more of the ES-175 thunk than either the AR371 or the ES-125. But it’s surprisingly heavy and not very resonant acoustically.

AR371 superficially resembles a 175. I have a student who has one of these? It's a very nice guitar.

At a glance it's the Ar405 the looks like a 125. Is this the guitar you meant, and if so how does it compare to the Godin Kingpin I?

Or do you mean retrofit the 371 with a p90?

I'm not sure if it's thunk I'm going for exactly, although thunk is a bonus.