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Hi forumoids,
I have a great es-335 from 1966 (traded in 1990 for an Akai S1000 sampler, lol ! ).
The thing is, the nut is really narrow, and despite making a wider string spacing at the nut and bridge, it's not the guitar i grab first, by far, because of playability. Too bad, really, those 40mm nuts ...
Anyway, since when i got it in 1990 the tuners were already not original, since i need to have it rewired, and since i need some money, haha, i thought i could sell the two PAF pickups and put some Seth Lovers instead.
Many times i compared those PAF with Seth Lovers on two of my other guitars, and really, whichever sounds just great, thought i slightly prefer the old PAFs. I think it's because of the extraordinary "acoustic" qualities of THIS es-335, which i will never sell. Attack, sustain, and just mojo.
Were this guitar 100% original from the beginning, i wouldn't touch it, but otherwise, in terms of pickups, i am not a purist at all.
Some are, here in Japan, and i intend to sell those PAF on Yahoo Auction.
I am seeking advice regarding a decent price. I know those can be on the expensive side, i just wonder how much.
Any help would be appreciated, thank you.
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08-14-2018 01:04 AM
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"Asking" prices for original Gibson 50's - 60's PAF's can go anywhere from $1,000 up to $10,000, depending on who you ask. Take a look at Gbase or Reverb and you'll see what I mean.
The trick is to find someone who has actually bought or sold these so-called Holy Grail of pickups. If they told the truth, you'd likely find out they sold for considerably less than what was advertised. At least you know the provenance of your PAF's. If you find the right buyer, especially in Japan, you could strike gold. Otherwise they could sit on the shelf waiting for a sale. If it were me I'd drop them in another guitar and enjoy them.
Sorry, I'm no help with your pricing query, but the PAF pricing game is a guitar forum rabbit hole.
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Those are not PAFs. PAF stands for "Patent Applied For," while yours are patent number pickups, which are worth considerably less than PAFs.
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There is a wide price range for PAF's and early Patent Sticker pickups.
First question is whether your Pickups are Early Patent sticker pickups or T-Tops. You have to remove the covers to be sure. Patent sticker T-Tops are worth about $300 (each) with the covers. Pre-T-top patent sticker pickups with a cover are worth up to $1100 (each) with orange/red wire. If they have purple wire they are worth up to $1300 (each) (which is less than a late PAF would sell for and that is strange as the purple wire pre-T-top pickups are identical in every way to a late PAF).
I sold an orange wire pre-T-top without a cover on Reverb a few months ago for $700. I have seen the vintage dealers sell them for $1000 without a cover on EBay, but I was happy to give a fellow musician a good deal.
1966 was the first year of the T-tops so your pickups could be worth less than you think. Open the covers and keep your fingers crossed. Good luck!
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Ah, i see !
Thanks gents, this is some great help.
Well, i learned something today ! ^ ^
Might not be worth all the trouble after all ...
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Good source for ES-335 info:
http://www.es-335.com/2010/05/10/gib...-pat-to-t-top/
PAFs, PATs and T-Tops | The Gibson ES-335
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Very useful ! Thanks a lot GeechNYC !
Originally Posted by Geechnyc
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Seems the actual date of T-tops is fuzzy... this source states 1967...
Great info broken down by years....
PAF (pickup) - Wikipedia
"
A P.A.F. or simply PAF is an early model of the humbucker guitar pickup invented by Seth Lover in 1955. Gibson began use of the PAF on higher-model guitars in late 1956 and stopped in around 1962. They were replaced by the Patent Number (Pat No) pickup, essentially a refined version of the PAF. These were in turn replaced by "T-Top" humbuckers in 1967, and production ended in 1975. Though it is commonly mistaken as the first humbucker pickup, the PAF was the first humbucker to gain widespread use and notoriety. The PAF is an essential tonal characteristic of the now-famous 1958-1960 Gibson Les Paul Standard guitars, and pickups of this type have gained a large following.
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Ugh! Now we are down to parting out ES-335s. It was bad enough when everyone was parting out all of the archtops and the ES-330s, in order to repair the "DiMarzioing" and brass-nutting, etc., that was done to Les Pauls and SGs in the 70s and 80s.
Now we have raised the bar and are scouring the 1-9/16" neck width ES-335s, too?
There will come a day when folks regret all of this organ transplantation, as it were. Remember, Les Pauls were _way_ out before...it can happen again. Stratocasters, too. In the 1960s, you couldn't give either away.
Apologies to xuoham.
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I would consider it if I owned one though I would keep the pickups for my own use... those 1 9/6" are tough to get used to IMO... Other than being old, those narrow nuts have little desire for many. Yes, that could change in time... Originally Posted by Greentone
Ugh! Now we are down to parting out ES-335s. It was bad enough when everyone was parting out all of the archtops and the ES-330s, in order to repair the "DiMarzioing" and brass-nutting, etc., that was done to Les Pauls and SGs in the 70s and 80s.
Now we have raised the bar and are scouring the 1-9/16" neck width ES-335s, too?
There will come a day when folks regret all of this organ transplantation, as it were. Remember, Les Pauls were _way_ out before...it can happen again. Stratocasters, too. In the 1960s, you couldn't give either away.
Apologies to xuoham.
My '57 ES-140 has a 1 9/16" nut, but that makes sense as it is a wee 3/4 guitar. Feels totally different on a full size guitar.
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1967 was the first year where almost all the Gibsons had T-tops. 1966 was a transition year. Some had T-tops and some had pre-T-tops. Gibson used up their old stock. While PAF's ended in 1962, some 63's had PAF's and gold plated guitars can see PAF's up to 1966! (Gold plated guitars did not sell in high numbers due to price elasticity, so it took several years for Gibson to use up their gold plated PAF pickups).
While it may offend some to pull the PUPs out of a 1966 ES-335, the truth is that it makes economic sense if the PUPs are pre-T-top. The difference in value for a 66 335 with replacement PUPs and one with original pre-T-top PUPs is less that what those PUPs themselves will bring minus the cost of installing a good set of replacement PUPs.
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Yes, that's it, exactly, i am DOWN to doing this. I wish i could do without. Originally Posted by Greentone
Points of view may vary according to income, i guess...
Again, were this guitar all original from the start, i would have sold in its integrity, reluctantly.
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I have a '66 ES-335 also. Got it cheap long ago due to a repaired headstock break. It's well worn, well played, refretted, replaced tuners. With the best pair of humbuckers I've heard yet.
They'll fetch less than PAFs, so if money is your motive, it's not as strong a motive as you thought. Seths are excellent, but I don't think I'd ever swap out the originals in mine.
MD
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What a strange thread. If the pickups are that bad that you want to remove them, why would they be worth anything. Is there something wrong with the guitar or are you trying to make something wrong with it?
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Did you actually read the thread ? Originally Posted by icr
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There was a guy on MLP a while back that had a pair of early/mid 60s ES-335-12s looking for info on converting the headstocks to 6 strings. Originally Posted by Greentone
Ugh! Now we are down to parting out ES-335s. It was bad enough when everyone was parting out all of the archtops and the ES-330s, in order to repair the "DiMarzioing" and brass-nutting, etc., that was done to Les Pauls and SGs in the 70s and 80s.
Now we have raised the bar and are scouring the 1-9/16" neck width ES-335s, too?
There will come a day when folks regret all of this organ transplantation, as it were. Remember, Les Pauls were _way_ out before...it can happen again. Stratocasters, too. In the 1960s, you couldn't give either away.
Apologies to xuoham.
Leave it be and sell it and get a damn 6 string ES...
Meh
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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If the pickups are early T-Tops, and not PAF's, that might not be a bad thing. Many players like them. Based on your comments, you like the way they sound in your 335. So again, if the 335 no longer works for you, why not simply drop the pickups into another guitar that you are more comfortable with?
I have a set of T-Tops in an old hot-rodded Harmony Stratotone and they sound killer! I've thought about yanking them out and putting them into something more 'worthy'. But for now they fit the vibe of that instrument.
Bottom line, they're your pickups and only you can decide what to do with them.
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Yes, that's right, thank you, i already know what to do with them, i just posted in order to get an idea of the value, not to ask for opinions or judgements, which are very fine nevertheless. Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
It's easy to post without reading the original post correctly, i did it a few times myself here too.
I guess, as kindly suggested above, i should have checked ebay and reverb directly.
It would have spared me the frowns ...
But, hey, i learned the difference between PAF and numbered PAF !
Thank you all.
edit: i thought i posted it in the first post, but it disappeared:
i really need cash, that's why. I am not speculating for profit,
just trying to face the cost of some imponderable of life.
I have hands, i have ears, i can play guitar, life is great !
Last edited by xuoham; 08-16-2018 at 03:44 AM.
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