65 Fender Deluxe Reverb - Jensen P-12Q vs C-12K ceramic magnet

[Fat Fingers]

Hello!

I am ready to buy a new amp but I am having a hard time deciding. I am digginf the Fender deluxe reverb, '65 reissue but it turns out there are two models available. Other than cosmetics the speakers are slightly different. One has a Jensen P-12Q, and the other (standard) version has a C-12K ceramic magnet.

From what I researched it seems like the P-12Q breaks up at a lot lower volume, but that's not really a thing you want in jazz is it?

I played the standard in store and really liked it, but have not had a chance to play the other "special" model.

I have a few question for those who may be more familiar with the equipment.

-Which amp is better for jazz?

-Which amp is better for a all-around tone, if you will?

I am only playing at home, not in a gig or anything (I wish lol), I love jazz but i also like to throw down some blues and even the occasional rock song.

I appreciate any suggestions on which amp will serve me better (or if you have any other suggestions great).

[rio]

Are you set on a tube amp? I am not suggesting this because I don’t like Fenders (I had an old 70’s Twin back in the day and it sounded lovely) but just because they sound so good - check out the Henriksen Bud or Blu. They are basically the same amp but one is cheaper and has Bluetooth and the other has two channels and is a little more. I have the a Bud and it basically ended my endless search for the perfect jazz amp. Bonus is that it works great for other styles, turns out to be also a great bass amp, and for vocals as well. But in terms of just jazz it is wonderful with the bonus of it doing everything else well too (sometimes needing pedals in front depending on the style).

If you are mainly playing at home than one of the biggest advantages for me with the amp isn’t as important but it is very portable and until people hear it they generally have no idea that it sounds so good and is so capable of high volume playing with as small as it is.

Very different than a nice Fender tube amp but thought I’d mention it since you are looking for suggestions. I can also get a very nice Fender sound out of it so it has stopped me from having to look at tube amps altogether. If I had someone to carry my gear for me I might go back to a Twin though because they really are great too. The combo of sound and practicality make me always recommend it to others though - there is a sax player who calls me for gigs and he has one too now after hearing mine (and not surprisingly his saxes also sound great through it).


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[Jim Soloway]

Just my opinion but I think a Deluxe is too much amp for playing at home. Like most (all?) tube amps it need a fair amount of volume to start really warming up. Most people find a Princeton to be a better choice for home use and there are even several very nice amps based on the Champ design but with larger speakers that are aimed specifically for that market. In all three of these power levels there are lots of choices from both large and small builders and I would recommend doing a bit more home work before committing.

[Greentone]

Anyone on the fence, having a hard time deciding, should run out and buy a vintage Marshall Major with two 4x12 cabinets. It will handle any situation, and the diesel engine is good for about 500,000 miles.

[skiboyny]

I have a 66 Deluxe with an alnico speaker in it. It really sounds great for Jazz. If you can give a listen to both and decide. They have a different sound. I don't know that you will play loud enough at home to worry about the loss of headroom. I also have a Princeton and although it's a great amp I find myself favoring the Deluxe. Also depends on the guitar. If you have a set pickup Gibson the Deluxe is a hard sound to beat. Best of luck on your decision I doubt you will be disappointed either way.

Hello!

I am ready to buy a new amp but I am having a hard time deciding. I am digginf the Fender deluxe reverb, '65 reissue but it turns out there are two models available. Other than cosmetics the speakers are slightly different. One has a Jensen P-12Q, and the other (standard) version has a C-12K ceramic magnet.

From what I researched it seems like the P-12Q breaks up at a lot lower volume, but that's not really a thing you want in jazz is it?

I played the standard in store and really liked it, but have not had a chance to play the other "special" model.

I have a few question for those who may be more familiar with the equipment.

-Which amp is better for jazz?

-Which amp is better for a all-around tone, if you will?

I am only playing at home, not in a gig or anything (I wish lol), I love jazz but i also like to throw down some blues and even the occasional rock song.

I appreciate any suggestions on which amp will serve me better (or if you have any other suggestions great).

[Fat Fingers]

well, the reason I listed those two amps specifically is because I got the chance to demo the Standard C-12k version at my local Guitar Center and loved the sound of a jazzmaster and a ES-275 through it. But when i went to buy it online I saw the other version with the P-12Q. It threw me lol.

I appreciate the other amps you guys mentioned (the 4x12 seems a bit much lol), but I cant find anywhere that sells them to try them out. Are the Henriksen's fairly obscure or something? I already have a Super Champ xd (the old one, not the x2) and I really liked the sound of the deluxe reverb more.

I admit I am a bit in over my head, I don't really know what some of this terminology means, thanks for your patience.

[Greentone]

Seriously, now, you can use a Fender 5-watt Champ Amp at home just fine. It sounds gorgeous. Crank that little rascal up to 12--that's right, it goes to 12 (always has)--and it sounds VERY aggressive.

Folks like Jeff Beck have gigged very successfully with the Champ, by the way.

For years and years, the Vibro Champ, then the Silver Face Champ, ultimately the tweed Champ was my home practice amp. Archtops, solid bodies, semi-acoustics? It handles them all with ease.

To be sure, it's a very retro amp and not the only small, practice amp out there. MANY small amps will work well. The Marshall Major entry was my attempt at broad humor.

[Fat Fingers]

Seriously, now, you can use a Fender 5-watt Champ Amp at home just fine. It sounds gorgeous. Crank that little rascal up to 12--that's right, it goes to 12 (always has)--and it sounds VERY aggressive.

Folks like Jeff Beck have gigged very successfully with the Champ, by the way.

For years and years, the Vibro Champ, then the Silver Face Champ, ultimately the tweed Champ was my home practice amp. Archtops, solid bodies, semi-acoustics? It handles them all with ease.

To be sure, it's a very retro amp and not the only small, practice amp out there. MANY small amps will work well. The Marshall Major entry was my attempt at broad humor.

Is this amp the one you are talking about?



It's 15 watts, not 5, and it's called Super Champ XD. It has lots of other voices and such. I think its the same family as the one you are speaking of? Maybe I need to give it another chance huh? Just save my money and use what I have. (but what is the fun in that right?)

[mr. beaumont]

Oh goodness no, get a real champ. Heck, get the cheapo champion 600 "reissue."

Those digi-champs are actually decent amps, but I can't think of them as champs proper...too many bells and whistles. Champs are abut beautiful simplicity in my book.

[Greentone]

Jeff is exactly right. Being a glutton, I own three tweed Champs. They are superb little tube amps. They are built in droves by tribute builders as the "5f1," and are simply the cat's whiskers.

[Tal_175]

I owned both models in the past. Well, I purchased the regular ceramic one but the store didn't have it in stock so they gave me the alnico one temporarily for a few weeks until they got the regular model in stock.
Alnico model to me was very warm and "creamy", as one would expect. They both would be good for jazz. If you'll use it at home, the early breakup of the alnico model would be only hypothetical. The breakup territory is not for home use really for most living situations.
I now have a Princeton and as some people already suggested in this thread, I find it much more suitable for home use. I gigged with it too. It's plenty loud for many types of gigs.
Deluxe's volume is hard to adjust for quiet usage. Princeton's volume can be turned up to 3 without testing the neighbors during reasonable hours even in apartment living. You're also getting somewhat closer to the amps ideal power level at these volumes.

[skiboyny]

There is more to a high power amp besides total volume. The more power an amp has the more capable of reproducing sound without distortion. It's also able to reproduce more accurately all frequencies. This is most apparent in the base side of things. A higher powered amp can sound bigger even at lower volume. Clean tones are generally distortion free. This may or maynot be what your after. Let your ears decide. If you think it sounds better it does.

[Fat Fingers]

I owned both models in the past. Well, I purchased the regular ceramic one but the store didn't have it in stock so they gave me the alnico one temporarily for a few weeks until they got the regular model in stock.
Alnico model to me was very warm and "creamy", as one would expect. They both would be good for jazz. If you'll use it at home, the early breakup of the alnico model would be only hypothetical. The breakup territory is not for home use really for most living situations.
I now have a Princeton and as some people already suggested in this thread, I find it much more suitable for home use. I gigged with it too. It's plenty loud for many types of gigs.
Deluxe's volume is hard to adjust for quiet usage. Princeton's volume can be turned up to 3 without testing the neighbors during reasonable hours even in apartment living. You're also getting somewhat closer to the amps ideal power level at these volumes.

You mean the Princeton Reverb? Like this one

Fender '57 Custom Champ 5-watt 1x8" Tube Combo Amp | Sweetwater

[339 in june]

Greentone is always right when it comes to amps !
+1 for the Champ, the real one, 5F1
I built me a clone for home practice and for rehearsals.
Very light.
Very easy to use (one volume knob, that's all, but it goes to 12 !)
Very nice clean tones, with nice grit if you crank it up a bit.
And it helps you to learn to use the volume knob on your guitar.

[Fat Fingers]

Jeff is exactly right. Being a glutton, I own three tweed Champs. They are superb little tube amps. They are built in droves by tribute builders as the "5f1," and are simply the cat's whiskers.

Like this one?

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...hoCUnEQAvD_BwE

[Hep To The Jive]

Fender Princetone is so good for jazz!

But Fenders are not the only tube amps in town. My fav is Vintage 47 replicas of old Valcos and Gibsons. Perfect dirty clean tone, for blues and jazz and in between.

[Tal_175]

You mean the Princeton Reverb? Like this one

Fender '57 Custom Champ 5-watt 1x8" Tube Combo Amp | Sweetwater

No, like this one:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...tube-combo-amp

Although '57 Champ is a nice amp too, Princeton might be more versatile perhaps as the "main amp" especially if you use pedals.
Deluxe Reverb due to bigger cabinet will have deeper bass typically. But that also adds to the complications of controlling volume in home use.

[Greentone]

Like this one?

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...hoCUnEQAvD_BwE

BINGO! That's the one. What a pure amp. Believe it or not, I have one of my "Champs" set up as a head only. I play it into an open-back 4x10" four-ohm load cabinet. The amp sounds GREAT and gets surprisingly loud for a little bugger.

[Jim Soloway]

I was thinking of something like the Gries 5. It has the basic circuitry of a Blackface Champ but with a heavier Mercury Magnetics transformer, a larger cab, a 12" Eminence speaker and a bunch of useful tweaks and options (supposedly the gain control allows it to do a Tweed Champ a well as a BF Champ).

Amplifiers

[Fat Fingers]

Thanks for all the advice guys, now to see if i can find a place to demo these amps lol!

Probably another topic but, why do some amps have a middle knob and some don't? Is one configuration superior to the other?

[Greentone]

Jim,

The Gries 5 is a very valid design. I've done the big iron (transformers), 12" cabinet route before with the 5f1. Put it in a Princeton-sized cabinet and you get a _very_ satisfying result. Gries has it all going on.

Yes, some of the Champs have only a volume knob, some have volume/tone, some have volume/treble/bass, some have volume/treble/mid/bass.

IMO, the best one is the 5f1 circuit--which has only a volume knob. There is absolutely nothing in the circuit to _subtract_ from the pure tone of the Class-A pre-amp/power-amp design. This little amplifier rules. After that, I really like the blackface/silverface (really no difference) amp with volume/bass/treble. The later designs, like the Champ 12 and the Super Champs are all goodies, too.

I used to gig with a Champ 12 in a rock/blues/jazz trio--drums/bass/guitar/vocals. That little amp (two 12ax7 tubes, one 6L6 tube) was a lot of fun. Some folks never liked the red knob series, but I thought the amp was pretty good. (As with most amps, I never used the distortion circuit. Just crank the amp and the tubes do plenty when smacked with the humbuckers from a 335.)

[gggomez]

I was blown away when I went to a boutique manufacturer making Tweed and Blackface replicas.

The Tweed Deluxe, man I nearly fell off my chair. After an hour or so I found it a bit hairy (in a super amazing awesome way but for jazz was wary, but I am still confused as it oozed so much goodness that I was drawn in and had it up really loud, I think maybe 3 on the volume. It was the greatest thing I have ever heard).

I kept swapping back to the Princeton black face replica, it has much more mids than those ReIssue things, so much more clarity. In the end I had that Princeton sounding pretty close to the Tweed. The guy suggested I put the 12 inch alnico speaker (which the Tweed had) to the Princeton to get that more bell like sound like the Tweed. He said he could not tell which amp I was plugging into in the end I had them so close (2 hours of trying out two amazing amps). So I went the Princeton (which I should receive in the next week) for that extra head room but man I want, sorry I must have both.

Apologies for all the brackets, I am excited!

[Greentone]

Black face Princeton and Tweed Deluxe amps are great. I don't own the Princeton (I do have a tweed, though--different circuit), but I own several Tweed Deluxe amps. They are beautiful amps. You can play a lot of different type of music through them--including great Blue Note jazz stuff. I do lots of gigging with the Deluxe. It works well with all sorts of guitars. Here's a couple of my Deluxes--both the mid-50s tweed circuit--with a Strat, a 335, and a 17" archtop.

[Tal_175]

Tweed champs definitely have a beautifully raw soulfulness about them unlike anything else.

[omphalopsychos]

I almost bought a champ once but then I got a Victoria Ivy League (replica of the Fender Harvard) instead. It is *perfect*. Then again I also have a blackface and an octal because those are crucial.