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I just attempted to purchase a Campellone Special archtop, built in the USA - But the guitar is in an Ontario guitar shop. The shop seller informs me that he can't ship it due to recently passed cites legislation which prevents guitars with shell inlays being imported unless the guitar has substantial paperwork to support that the inlays were legally obtained.
WTH?!
The guitar was built in the US! Anyone else been tripped up by this? And how the heck does a guitar business export a guitar today? As if sales weren't bad enough already!
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08-09-2018 03:11 PM
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A. I thought you were buying a Bosendorfer.
B. Don’t think they know what they are talking about. Unless they are shipping from South Africa, and it happens to be white abalone, abalone isn’t a CITES listed species.
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I am all for conservation but some of the laws are frankly ridiculous. My mom was moving and she couldn’t get piano movers to take her piano as a gift to give to someone else - it was an old Steinway and she didn’t have room for it but it had ivory keys so no one would touch it. Those elephants are long gone...There was also an orchestra that was coming to the States, NJ I think, and all of their bows were confiscated. They really need to re-evaluate the laws and how the affect law abiding musicians.
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I don't know the ins and outs of Cites, thought it pertained just to certain woods that required traceability on goods produced after some date certain..
But I do have some experience paying fees related to MOP and abalone shell import.
The invoices I get include an explanation of charges that mentions "Fish & Wildlife clearance fees through customs upon entry to the USA" that are bundled in with the shipping costs.
For much more shell than could ever be on a single guitar, I've never seen much of an expense.
Just re-read my last invoice, the total of "Fish & Wildlife clearance fees", domestic USPS Priority mail charges AND the international shipping from Viet Nam = USD$12.
I'd think that Campellone would have some proof fees were paid, if there were fees applicable on the shell used.
Might be worth asking him if you wanted to pursue getting that guitar brought back to US, seems like the store should have handled that but it could be they just thought it would be too much trouble.
John
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As stated earlier the only abalone shell included as CITES Appendix III is perlemoen (2007) and the US Endangered Species Act (2001). Green, Red and Paua are good to go.
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Just my opinion but I think CITES makes importing any guitar into the US that has even a remote question mark attached more trouble than it's worth unless the seller is willing to ship it from the US. There are enough guitars in the US without having to take risks.
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I think the problem is less the laws than some people's confusion, ignorance, and stupidity. Lots of rumors get spread, exaggerated, and sometimes without much evidence.
There is some valuable information on the website of the Piano Technicians Guild. It explains the de minimis rules from USFW which would exempt pianos.
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I wonder what our brethren in the vintage banjo world are experiencing? The bling on banjos from the 20s and 30s is through the roof. Between the woods and the shells, getting a banjo across the border must be nearly impossible. Some of those heirloom banjos are pretty pricey, too.
Here's a 30s Stromberg with a rosewood neck--not just the fingerboard--and tons of bling:
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The problem is that the confusion spreads all the way from customers to manufacturers to enforcement officers and the last of those have a lot of discretionary power. When discretionary power couples with confusion the results are entirely unpredictable and very difficult to correct after the fact. That makes "just say no" a safe (albeit unsatisfying) option.
Originally Posted by Stuart Elliott
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It's america. One can do both. Originally Posted by rlrhett
The shop won't ship the guitar from Canada to the US. They claim that the last time they did the guitar was held in Customs for 90 days waiting for the shop to submit paperwork on the ABALONE. I don't work in customs so what do I know. But clearly something is up at the border with made in usa guitars returning to the usa.
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Woah. The Bosendorfer comment was made as a joke. After all the forum has been ablaze with guitars you are selling to finance the piano, so I was making a comment meant as friendly ribbing on what I assumed was a mutual GAS for a Campelleone. Apparently you took offense. Duly noted. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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Crazy world. Much easier getting drugs across the border.
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Well, if the guitar was shipped with no paperwork that’s a red flag. If it had the paperwork it’d likely have breezed through unscathed. The fact that it was a US built instrument returning to the US it shouldn’t get much attention.
i think the onus is on the shop for not doing the paperwork. Look elsewhere.
i just had those two GBs shipped from damn Brazil, they’re loco at Customs there, and they both went Breezin through if you’ll excuse the pun.
Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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It's easier to get drugs through because they're easier to hide. Pretty difficult to carry a guitar in a condom up your colon.
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Good one brother! Originally Posted by sgosnell
It's easier to get drugs through because they're easier to hide. Pretty difficult to carry a guitar in a condom up your colon.
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Excuse my ignorance with CITES etc,
is the Abalone the Ibanez GB10 AS200 etc have illegal, i heard Gibson had problem with Ebony and Rosewood a few years ago.
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Originally Posted by Durban
The abalone and pearlblocks used on Ibanez are made in Japan, who knows what their rules are now. My GB12 was a 1990, the Y2K a 2000. Those blocks on the Y2K are robably made by the thousands for Ibanez, same as used for the GB10 and AS200 as you noted.
Date it was manufactured helps bend the rules. In English if an item was made before the newer rules of the embargo were enforced and the date of manufacture is clearly marked on the label inside the guitar and on the paperwork that helps a LOT... I had a gorgeous bowl back K Yairi "Leo" that had staves of brazilian rosewood and a brazilian rosewood carved lion pickguard. Customs grabbed that sucker up and were ready to make it kindling... I got a Customs Broker working for me (about $200.00) and they helped me push it through, being in actual phone contact with the Customs agents (they work with them all the time). They pointed out to the agent is was made in 1975 in Japan... I got it thru, SOMEHOW... Meanwhile a $7000.00 Unity 100th Anniversary Archtop spent all of 15 minutes rumbling along the Customs line and right to my door. Made in USA in 1994 helped some (before ebony got more restricted) the fact it's a US made item returning to the US also eases some "import issues".
As for Gibson, that wood got seized because they did not have ample documentation proving it wasn't illegally harvested... Capicse ??
Again it sounds to me like the dealer really doesn't want the hassle of learning how to fill out the Customs Paperwork properly and wants an inside Canada buyer. In other words they're not that hot to move it... What a shame...
A Borsendorfer huh ??? Nice going Greg... good luck.
Big
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Thanks BM! No Bosendorfer for this kid. I’m not exactly Oscar Peterson.
The Campellone Special in question is a blonde being sold for $5k. That’s nearly the price of a used Campellone Deluxe. It’s the shop owners personal guitar. It’s the only special on the planet available for that price. If you care for blonde. Meh
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Larry Wexer has a gorgeous Campellone light burst special - in unplayed condition for $5500. Even the tail pc has inlays. No customs nonsense - he’s in NY. He’s a good friend and only sells fine guitars. This is a great buy and you might get it for less. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
Thanks BM! No Bosendorfer for this kid. I’m not exactly Oscar Peterson.
The Campellone Special in question is a blonde being sold for $5k. That’s nearly the price of a used Campellone Deluxe. It’s the shop owners personal guitar. It’s the only special on the planet available for that price. If you care for blonde. Meh
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Thanks QAman! Any photos, or is it advertised? Originally Posted by QAman
edit - I found it. Gorgeous Special. But my bad...the Special I inquired about is truly "special." It's an EIGHTEEN incher. A rare 18" Campy indeed.
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It’s a burst on GBase, asking $5500
2006 Campellone Special Sunburst > Guitars Archtop Electric & Acoustic | Laurence Wexer Ltd.
Also a lovely blonde at Lark Street at 6K, it’s a stunner
1996 Campellone Special Natural > Guitars Archtop Electric & Acoustic | Lark Street Music
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Another option is to have Mark build you one to your exact specs and color preference. Only a 4 month wait and a $500 deposit. He doesn’t take your money till you say you’re happy. Real stand up guy.
His helper retired and Mark turns 64 next month. He only builds 18 guitars a year now. When he walks away from guitar building his guitars will begin to skyrocket like D’A’s and D’AQ’s did IMO. The build quality is the best I have seen ever. I cannot find a single flaw on mine anywhere. Greg what ever you decide to get you will be happy.
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One thing that I would add is many mistakenly look at independent luthiers as they do factory guitars from larger manufacturers of instruments like Gibson. I believe this to be a mistake.
In my experience, solo luthiers continue to evolve their designs and work practices over their careers. They continue to learn and respond to the empirical results of their work. I would expect a 1998, 2008 and 2018 examples of the same model from a builder on average to be more consistent and perhaps “better” across time as they evolve as luthiers. So when you look at an older example of a luthier’s work for sale consider not only the difference in price vs. a new instrument but what the artisan has learned in the hundreds of guitars that they have made across time.
My $.02
Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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