Does My Gibson ES-175 Need a Refret?

[Alex531]

Hello everyone,
I am kind of a newbie with archtops but my 175 has a non-fixable intonation problem with the high E-string. A luthier and teacher of mine, saw my guitar today and played with it for a while and he said that the cause of the problem was the frets. He said that it needs a refret and that he can refret it and replace the nut with a bone one for 250 euro. Anybody who knows a bit more than me and can tell me a little bit about it will be really helpful. I am posting some pictures below if someone more experienced can tell me his views about the price and the frets etc.




Thanks!

[LtKojak]

Change luthier...

[joe2758]

smart to post here first. I'm not one of the experts here, but I was wondering, what year is this guitar?

[Stringswinger]

Try changing the E string first. My experience is that the high E can get wonky on the intonation when the string has outlived it's usefulness.

[Alex531]

The guitar is from '91. I just bought it in April.

[Alex531]

I will try changing the E string thanks!

[deacon Mark]

First question is what problem is the intonation? Generally a guitars frets assuming they are in the right place are independent of intonation problems. Intonation is determined by the bridge and where it sets along with the saddle. Is it flat or sharp and by how much? What about the rest of the string? Compensated saddles that come with the 3rd string being the closest to the nut are normally not as good as a gradual curve from treble to bass side. On a 24.75 scale like this guitar usually the bass side is about 1/5 of an inch longer in string length for accurate intonation but that varies too. A tuneomatic can get it precise in in some cases but frankly prefer the sound of wooded saddle,ebony if I have a choice.

I do not want to over-step the luthier who may really know his business and has seen the guitar in person. Just looking at it seems like the fret height is fine but would really need to have a photo over the top of the whole fretboard. Even then in-hand view is worth everything compare to a photo. I guess I am mystified by a re-fret curing the intonation problem? A guitar is refretted because the frets are worn and cannot be dressed anymore. Also refret a guitar that the fingerboard is uneven and not radiused evenly due to usually to movement of the wood.

[Alex531]

The problem is that the High-E string is really flat when I fret the 12th fret. Rather than being 660 hertz it is close to 645-650.

[Klatu]

I'm not qualified to say whether or not your guitar needs a refret; however, I can tell you from experience that 250 euros for a bound refret would be very fair where I live. If you do go for a refret, I recommend Jescar Evo frets. I put them on my favorite Epiphone Triumph a few years back, and it's now even more wonderful than it's ever been.

[rpguitar]

I would strongly refute the assessment that was made that the intonation is "non-fixable."

I see a few potential setup issues that are simple to rectify. First, the action seems a bit high, and I think I can even see evidence of too much relief in the neck (obviously I wouldn't bet money on that from an internet photo, but...). So I would get those right first.

Second, the bridge location seems very close to the bridge pickup surround, and may need to move back a hair toward the tailpiece. First thing to do is measure from the nut to the dead center of the G string saddle's range, and place the bridge/saddle apparatus such that this distance is exactly 24.75". Note: Intonation for all strings will need to be reset, which is of course GOOD because something is out of adjustment. You may even need to flip one or more saddles so the straight edge (notice they are sloped) is facing in an advantageous direction.

The saddles appear to be awkwardly set right now within their ranges. The E string saddle is all the way up towards the neck end of its range, and the bass strings are pushed up against the opposite side. Moving the whole bridge towards the tailpiece will let you get this right, and that's how you deal with intonation first and foremost before concluding that it's "non-fixable." Remember, this guitar has existed for 27 years. Don't you think someone would have caught this by now?

I also agree with Mark that I can't imagine how a re-fret would fix intonation in the first place.

[helios]

Hello,
I had a fretboard leveled, nut replaced, and Jescar gold Evo frets installed for $350 USD (about 300 Euros) so the quote is fair. I am very happy I had it done.

[grahambop]

The bridge looks much too close to the pickup mount. On my 175 there is at least half an inch space between them.

On yours the bridge and saddle position means it has used up nearly all the string length reduction possible, and yet it still sounds flat, that really doesn’t look right.

I would definitely change the strings before going any further. Old worn strings can be in tune at one fret and out at another. Perhaps the strings date from 1991 too.

[Papawooly]

I agree with RPguitar, that bridge is almost close enough to get that pickup pregnant!!

Set it for 24.75", re-do your intonation and you are golden...

Here is what it should look like...

[Jabberwocky]

The entire bridge looks so forward shifted as if trying to compensate valiantly for a guitar that frets flat at the 12th across all six strings...Did you check under the top to see if the kerfed braces aka tone bars are breaking or broken? Your ES-175 does not appear to have much of an arch. Is the top sinking?

[Jabberwocky]

Frank Ford posted a very interesting article here FRETS.COM Field Trip .

As you can see in one of the photos, before repair, the bridge was also perilously close to and touching the pickup ring.

[whiskey02]

You need a pro set up performed by a different tech. New frets will go exactly where frets are now - how would that alter the intonation??? You just need a good set up, as stated above, bridge is out of place, action looks higher than necessary.

[sgosnell]

I agree with others that the bridge is misplaced and the action is too high. Those are easily fixed, and free. Fix those issues before doing anything else. If you don't know how to adjust the action or intonation, learn how. It's not rocket science. Go to a different repair person and get him/her to teach you, for what should be a small fee. If your current "luthier" can't see these problems, he's just not competent, and I wouldn't trust him to do a refret.

[Socalbill]

I would agree with all that is said here. Do the simple stuff first. The frets look to me like they have been leveled and re-crowned and as a result they look low. High action/low frets could cause bad intonation by pulling the string out of tune to fret it. Could be lowering the action, correctly positioning the bridge could solve your intonation issue, but you actually may face a refret down the line. Are you hard on frets? If not you are probably ok.
Bill

[Alex531]

Thanks to everyone who responded, it really helped me. The cause of the problem, after all, were the strings xD.