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Truth is he gets a pretty good clean tone with his Tele into his GK150mb.
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07-04-2018 01:17 PM
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That's as good a jazz rig as you need!!
Originally Posted by Razorbackjazz
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That is so great that you've encouraged your son in his musical journey.
Just to add yet another amp for consideration...Roland Cube 80XL or 80GX. They both have been discontinued, but are great little solid state amps for jazz, rock, funk, etc. Both have 80 LOUD watts in a very small package. Also, they are loaded with quality onboard effects, eliminating the need for pedals.
The 80XL even has an Extension Speaker Out to connect to another cab for even more sound. The more recent 80GX is an 'improved' version, but does not have the Ext. Speaker output jack.
I own the 80GX and keep it in my trunk for rehearsals, and as a back up if my tube amp ever dies at a gig.
They each weigh around 30 lbs., and are available on the used market for less than $500!!
https://www.roland.com/us/products/cube-80xl/
https://www.roland.com/us/products/c...pecifications/
Good hunting!
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+1 that GK combo is a great sounding amp IMO. Originally Posted by marcwhy
You could just add a reverb pedal for guitar and be set.
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Some alternative thinking, perhaps ...
I play in a full big band and a 4 horn band.
With all that sound, I can barely hear anything (I have to wear earplugs because of the volume and hearing issues, so take this with a grain of salt).
The idea that I'm going to be sensitive to small nuances in the sound ... well, there are more important considerations, at least to me.
Weight and size. If you have to move the amp a lot, having a big heavy amp is a pain, and unnecessary. The bassist in my 19 piece band uses something the size of a briefcase with two small speakers and sounds huge.
Volume: I gig with a Roland JC55 (26 lbs). I rehearse with a Roland 40X. Both are plenty loud. If I had to turn up to the max volume with either one, it would be so loud near the amp that I couldn't stand it. If the horns aren't mic'ed how loud do you need to be? If they are mic'ed, why can't you run a line into the PA?
If the amp isn't 100% clean for a solo, how big a deal is that? I play solid state and it's has never been a problem. The JC55 is 45 watts, I think. The 40X, I'm guessing is 40.
EQ: This is a bigger issue -- and can be huge if the guitar puts out too much low frequency information. You need to get the guitar sitting right within the mix. If I could use only one FX box it would be 7 band EQ. Most amps have three band EQ - which may be enough, but you wouldn't want any less.
Open or closed back: In the low rent venues my groups play, it's a struggle to locate the amp. It's a rare gig that somebody doesn't complain. Often, I get a complaint from one guy that I'm too loud -- and from another guy that he couldn't hear it. I sometimes have to bring a second amp just to give the drummer a monitor so he can hear the guitar. I use the Lunchbox for that -- I do NOT recommend the LB amp (I think it sounds terrible), but at least it's small and light. With an open back cabinet maybe you can take advantage of the fact that sound emanates from the back too. Maybe.
I have used a 12 watt Crate practice amp for the big band rehearsals. Nobody complained. Weighs about 12 pounds, sounds great. It's not loud at all, but it worked for rehearsal. I'm afraid to take it on a gig because I might need more volume for an audience.
Head/Cab: There's an argument for separate head and cab. It allows you to keep the controls where you can reach them and the speaker whereever it's best for the sound of the band. I don't do it, because I use a Boss ME80, which allows me to control everything I need from my pedalboard. But, it's worth considering. Class D heads weigh just a few pounds and are powerful.
I have used both expensive tube amps and cheap solid state amps, expensive guitars and cheapies. They don't make that much difference, as far as I can tell. I think it would matter in a recording studio or maybe on a well designed stage with a quality PA, but not for the typical situation in which I find myself.
One final point: A lot of amps break in the exact same way. The input jack is soldered into the PC board instead of being connected to it by a short wire. Over time, plugging and unplugging stresses the solder joint and it starts making noise and eventually dies. I'd recommend that you avoid any amp in which the jacks, pots and tubes, if any, are soldered into the board. It isn't hard to fix but it's still worth avoiding IMO.
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Expensive: Roland Blues Cube Artist. While I have a nice Fender tube amp (Rivera era Concert) I never play it any more.
Inexpensive: Boss Katana. IMHO they sound better than most of other options listed and don't require a pedal to sound good.
If you ask them on the phone Musicians Friend will often (not always) apply their current discount to items that are normally excluded like Roland amps. That with free shipping will save you on the amp over local stores.
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If you're going solid state, the only amp I can really recommend is a Quilter. Even so, I only recommend it as a good utility amp. It'll get you solidly through pretty much any gig, but I never choose it over one of my Fenders unless the Fender is just not practical for the gig. But since I have 3 Fender's to choose from -- Princeton, Deluxe, 59 Bassman RI -- it's rare that I think the Quilter would be the better choice.
However, YMMV.
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This discussion of the big band setting is interesting to me. I always learn so much on this Forum!
I don't play in a big band -- I play in duo, trio and quartet settings.
But I do play at an annual outdoor festival where my quartet is sandwiched between two big band shows. Both big bands have guitarists, 8-10 horns, keyboards and vocals, etc. One bands guitarist plays a tele through a Blues Junior, the other plays a 175 through an old smallish Gibson tube amp (sorry I don't know which one). In neither of the big bands is the guitarist a featured soloist -- in fact, I can hardly hear them playing -- mostly they just chunk away on chords "in the mix".
Our quartet comes on with a similar volume to the big bands -- so we are all playing loudish -- not rock loud, but we're pumping out some sound. I always use my Henriksen 110ER for the gig -- outdoors, no PA, the Henriksen delivers great. I was playing much louder than the big band guitarists -- taking solos on most tunes, playing a few intros -- I guess the role was different . . .
BTW, I'm interested in the issue of closed back vs open back -- if the Henriksen did it's same thing and was opened back for better dispersion, I think it would work even better. Also of interest, before I bought the Henriksen I did this same gig maybe 5 years ago with a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe and hated every minute of my sound -- too crunchy! That amp went on Craigslist the next week.
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I’m going with a Fender. It’s going to weigh 42 pounds. It’s either the 65 Deluxe or the Vibrolux with 35 watts and 2 10’s. Same weight and about the same price. My last request for advice. Many of you will probably say it won’t do any good but I’m just ready to get it over with. I may end up losing a couple hundred when or if he gets tired of carrying it around. It’s not the first time it’s happened to me. Please..Anyone??
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I think the vibrolux will work great for your son. I think the 6L6 tubes will have a better jazz tone since they are not driven very hard at all and the 6V6s will tend to have less headroom since they’re biased at about 100% of Max rated output. Ymmv
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Vibrolux or Deluxe?
There are great players who swear by each one.
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Vibrolux. I'm confident your son will figure out how to move it from point A to point B. I did with an Ampeg B25 and a 2x15 cab when I was in the college big band 40 years ago, there were always buddies around to help.
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Your dilemma involves two of the greatest gigging amps. The vibrolux will have more headroom, and can do clean and breakup perfectly. But I think there is a 50 vs 40lbs weight difference with the deluxe, so the vibrolux falls into the heavy category(although I do see the 68 vibrolux listed at 42lbs?? -not sure about the current models weight). Maybe have your son play both, lift them around and factor that in your decision? If he can handle the vibrolux, I would choose that.
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This happened on my pretty expensive Genz-Benz. Luckily the threaded part and nut broke off from the base. So it still functions, but looks funny. Like the plug going into a "hole" instead of a jack. I have to be VERY careful with it. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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The "real thing?" Oh puleez. If the technology was as advanced back then as it is today, you'd be talking about solid state as the "real thing." Originally Posted by Alter
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Of those two, the Vibrolux. 2 x 10 and 35 watts will sit better in the mix in a band setting. Originally Posted by Razorbackjazz
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PRRI ‘65 and think about the speaker. How much do you like headroom?
Hot Rod Deluxes - something about those amps that I don’t completely like.... but if I have to use one at a gig it’s fine.
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The truth is we’re not really sure how hard he’ll be pushing the amp. We’re set up now with the VR and volume galore. Truth is he’ll probably never go past 3 or 4 in school So right now I don’t think headroom will be much of an issue. The PRRI was my initial first choice. I’ll bet it would have been great. I suspect though, that it won’t be long and he’ll be in a different situation other than school jazz where it will be beneficial. Is my thinking logical? Please tell me if I’m of base. Thanks Originally Posted by christianm77
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Did you look at the Fender George Benson version of the Hot Rod? $899, 43 pounds. If he's going to get into some tone and use it for other styles in addition to big band and doesn't mind the weight, that might be a good choice. I didn't mind lugging a twin around when I was that age, just seemed like a rite of passage at the time. Personally, if I was looking for a versatile Fender, lower priced and didn't mind the weight, I would go with the Mike Landau version of the Hot Rod Deville (61 pounds, 2x12). Really nice tone, almost Twin-like, takes pedals great for blues and fusion, can be had for around $800 used, 60 watts, should be plenty of headroom. I would think 40 watts minimum of tube power for what he wants to do.
The other light weight options might include the newer solid state Bias Mini head with a 1x12 cab. Haven't played one, but Corey Christiansen likes it.
I have both a ZT Club and Cube 80x (along with some great tube amps from Vintage Sound, a 70's Twin, Fryette and Allen amps - I like tubes!) and, while both of those work, the tone leaves me cold, though they are sure easy to grab for an archtop gig. They are just so uninspiring to my ears. For the record, I've never played anything by Quilter or Polytone or Henriksen, I do like Evans and don't like AI amps at all, but I'm more into Benson/Wes/Kreisberg tones for jazz, so take that into consideration. I may pick up the Bias Mini when I eventually sell these other small SS amps and just take that with a small closed back cab for simple gigs. The ZT Club has much better headroom than the Cube, btw, though also discontinued. And, has an effects loop, which gives you some versatility for adding in an EQ and pedals, as the onboard tone stack and reverb are pretty meh.
I will go along with others here, the Deluxe will be a frustrating amp for it's lack of headroom. Go solid state or at least 40 watts of tube power.
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I appreciate you taking time to help me out. After about a week of reading and learning we made a decision on July 4. I bought him a 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb 35 watt 2 x10. After the 15% discount it was under 1K w/ free shipping. I hope it works for him. What is your opinion about the Vibrolux? Originally Posted by yebdox
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Originally Posted by Razorbackjazz
I'm sure it will be a versatile amp for him, I've never been a big fan of 10's, (except in a Super) but I bet he will like it! I don't know what speakers come stock, but he could upgrade to some more efficient 10's from Eminence or WGS to improve the headroom. I'm also not a fan of speaker breakup, unless you have a Marshall driving a 4x12 cab with greenbacks! For everything else, I like speakers rated at 65 watts and above. But again, that's just me. I love tube tone, don't like speaker breakup and haven't ever been excited by a solid state amp, but there are many I've not played and the future looks bright
I do miss the longevity of NOS tubes, though. That situation is less likely to improve than the technology that makes SS behave like tubes. I think you can relax in your decision making. I used to have a 70's twin in my dorm closet 40 years ago... sounded like heaven when folks were gone on break, echoing down the hallways!
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