Bendy Guitar Neck

[p1p]

Hi all,

I've had a 335 type guitar for about a month or two now, been playing it a lot. I can't help but notice how easily the neck bends, i.e. pulling everything out of pitch, while playing. It's mostly with certain chords that require a tighter grip, not single line stuff so much. It's really starting to bother me.. is this normal for this type of guitar? I've seen on the tuner that the pitch can change 1/4 - 1/2 a step at times while playing. Haven't experienced this before.

Anyway, thoughts very much appreciated! I'm not particularly attached to this guitar if it needs to be replaced, I just picked it up to practice on as it's quieter than my archtop #1.

Cheers

[citizenk74]

Yes, this is a thing that can happen with long whippy necks. I think with time and care, you should be able to get this under control. Out of curiosity, how heavy are your strings? It seems to me stouter strings (and proper truss rod tension) might help stabilize the neck. Otherwise proper fretting hand technique is the main approach - thumb behind the neck balancing whatever pressure is brought to bear
by the fretting fingers. Good luck!

[John A.]

Hi all,

I've had a 335 type guitar for about a month or two now, been playing it a lot. I can't help but notice how easily the neck bends, i.e. pulling everything out of pitch, while playing. It's mostly with certain chords that require a tighter grip, not single line stuff so much. It's really starting to bother me.. is this normal for this type of guitar? I've seen on the tuner that the pitch can change 1/4 - 1/2 a step at times while playing. Haven't experienced this before.

Anyway, thoughts very much appreciated! I'm not particularly attached to this guitar if it needs to be replaced, I just picked it up to practice on as it's quieter than my archtop #1.

Cheers

That strikes me as a pretty unusual amount of bending. I've had a couple of guitars with skinny necks and flimsy body-neck heels/joints that moved a bit, but not as much as a semi-tone. That's definitely not normal for 335 style guitars (at least not well made ones that mimic the tenon and heel of a real one).

John

[Woody Sound]

Consider it a build-in left-handed whammy bar.

[p1p]

Yes, this is a thing that can happen with long whippy necks. I think with time and care, you should be able to get this under control. Out of curiosity, how heavy are your strings? It seems to me stouter strings (and proper truss rod tension) might help stabilize the neck. Otherwise proper fretting hand technique is the main approach - thumb behind the neck balancing whatever pressure is brought to bear
by the fretting fingers. Good luck!

Could very much be a combo of the guitar and my technique then - I wrap my hand around the neck half the time, using thumb on the 6th string..

It’s got a set of roundwound .10s, medium to high action.

I have noticed what looks like a crack in the finish both sides of the heel joint, but not on the back of the heel. I assume this is a normal thing for this type of guitar? It’s second hand so I don’t know the exact history of it (if it’s had a drop). There is also a small dent and chip in the third fret which makes me wonder.

[p1p]

That strikes me as a pretty unusual amount of bending. I've had a couple of guitars with skinny necks and flimsy body-neck heels/joints that moved a bit, but not as much as a semi-tone. That's definitely not normal for 335 style guitars (at least not well made ones that mimic the tenon and heel of a real one).

John

Sorry, just to clarify, it's only a semi-tone if I actually try. It's more accurately 1/4 tone flat or sharp ( +/- 20 cents ), which is enough to notice. It's bugging the s**t out of me..

[Thumpalumpacus]

Baffling. I've owned three SGs, and never had this issue, which those guitars are notorious for suffering. All three carried .011s. I can play with a heavy hand at times when the music needs it, but even with that the intonation was stable unless I wanted to pull it sharp.

Given that you mention that it only really happens with tighter grips, and given that you're talking about playing thumb-over, I say give traditional technique a shot: thumb centered on the back of the neck, fingers set one-finger/one-fret, and try a lighter touch.

[p1p]

Baffling. I've owned three SGs, and never had this issue, which those guitars are notorious for suffering. All three carried .011s. I can play with a heavy hand at times when the music needs it, but even with that the intonation was stable unless I wanted to pull it sharp.

Given that you mention that it only really happens with tighter grips, and given that you're talking about playing thumb-over, I say give traditional technique a shot: thumb centered on the back of the neck, fingers set one-finger/one-fret, and try a lighter touch.

Thanks, yeah I've never experienced it before, but it's the first 335 type I've owned and wasn't sure. I'll probably end up selling it (for what it's actually worth, maybe some guys like the potential for crazy neck bending effects), and find another guitar for quiet practice - solid body prob. more ideal. It'll have to be something of GOOD quality though, I'm really tired of going through cheaper guitars. I'll justify the cost with saving on what-would-be 'beer money', hah...

It'll prob. be between a Tele and a Les Paul. I've owned variations of each in the past. I know what people on this forum will suggest.

Cheers

[Matt Cushman]

Have you checked your truss rod nut? Make sure the nut is tight and is efective against the string tension.

[John A.]

Sorry, just to clarify, it's only a semi-tone if I actually try. It's more accurately 1/4 tone flat or sharp ( +/- 20 cents ), which is enough to notice. It's bugging the s**t out of me..

Even a 1/4 tone without consciously applying a fair amount of force strikes me as pretty extreme, too. The guitars I've had that had somewhat bendy necks (an SG and an Epi ET 270) didn't do that. You had to try to bend notes on those. What guitar are we talking about here? Something sounds amiss to me.

John

[p1p]

Even a 1/4 tone without consciously applying a fair amount of force strikes me as pretty extreme, too. The guitars I've had that somewhat bendy necks (an SG and an Epi ET 270) didn't do that. You had to try to bend notes on those. What guitar are we talking about here? Something sounds amiss to me.

John

Thanks, it's a Washburn HB32. Impressed with everything BUT this, and the 'distressed' look but whatever..

[p1p]

Have you checked your truss rod nut? Make sure the nut is tight and is efective against the string tension.

Yeah truss rod is working fine. It's either the length of the neck (and mahogany), or something's up at the joint, even though it just LOOKS like a finish crack at that joint.

[John A.]

Thanks, it's a Washburn HB32. Impressed with everything BUT this, and the 'distressed' look but whatever..

You say in another response there's a crack at the heel? Maybe get that checked out by a luthier?

John

[p1p]

Yeah it looks like just a crack in the finish though. It’s along both sides of the joint but nothing on the back.. I’m not attached to the guitar whatsoever and don’t want to put any money into repairs like that. Just wanted to get thoughts on the pitch change, and it sounds like there actually is something up now.

[citizenk74]

Could very much be a combo of the guitar and my technique then - I wrap my hand around the neck half the time, using thumb on the 6th string..

It’s got a set of roundwound .10s, medium to high action.

I have noticed what looks like a crack in the finish both sides of the heel joint, but not on the back of the heel. I assume this is a normal thing for this type of guitar? It’s second hand so I don’t know the exact history of it (if it’s had a drop). There is also a small dent and chip in the third fret which makes me wonder.

The cracks in the finish are another red flag. You might want to get a sturdier instrument. Say, something that rhymes with "Mellow Blaster," for instance.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Thanks, yeah I've never experienced it before, but it's the first 335 type I've owned and wasn't sure. I'll probably end up selling it (for what it's actually worth, maybe some guys like the potential for crazy neck bending effects), and find another guitar for quiet practice - solid body prob. more ideal. It'll have to be something of GOOD quality though, I'm really tired of going through cheaper guitars. I'll justify the cost with saving on what-would-be 'beer money', hah...

It'll prob. be between a Tele and a Les Paul. I've owned variations of each in the past. I know what people on this forum will suggest.

Cheers

I'm not sure what guitar it is that's giving you fits, but my experience with 335s and copies (of which I own one of the latter nowadays) is that whether 1- or 3-piece necks, the sort of wobbliness you're describing is not endemic to the design, but rather a matter (probably) of poor materials.

Whether the body is solid or not does not affect neck-stability, unless the wood around the neck-pocket is compromised. That wood must be solid.

[feet]

first thing that came to mind, sorry (1:15)

[p1p]

I’ve just taken the neck pickup off to look at the joint inside. I was applying a bit of pressure to the neck (more than would happen playing) and didn’t see any movement whatsoever. I know the truss rod works because I adjusted it not long ago. The problem must be the mahogany neck.. with my technique. it’s just not as stiff as the maple ones I’ve been used to? I can probably live with this, aware of it.

[Brian B]

Mebbe look into one of those Gibson ES335 Studios with a maple neck if you want to stay with that body style... or something rhyming with Jelly-faster like mentioned previously...lol


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[Woody Sound]