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Hello All,
Fairly new poster here! I have both a Loar LH-300 (soon to be sold) and a Loar LH-700 and have been playing both regularly. I was at my guitar lesson yesterday with the LH-300 complaining about my chronic basal thumb joint pain when the teacher mentioned that it could possibly be caused by the V neck. I do have pretty bad osteoarthritis in that joint and he said it seemed that I was positioning the thumb on either side of the neck but not directly in the middle of the neck when needed because of the V shape (btw, I play in the classical position). And, I am scheduled to get another cortisone injection into that joint within the next couple weeks, so I hope to have it settle down.
So, now I'm thinking that I have to let the LH-700 go as well, if the V neck is, indeed, the problem. I always liked the idea of having an acoustic archtop around that I didn't need to plug into an amp for spur of the moment practicing or playing. So, now I'm at a crossroads as to whether to let the LH-700 go and find another acoustic archtop or try to figure how to play a V necked guitar without stressing that thumb joint.
I've been looking online for something close to the LH-700 with a C shaped neck and realize that the Eastman models like an AR805 would probably work just fine, but am trying to find something priced comparably to what I could get for the LH-700 in the used market. And, the Godin 5th Avenue seems to get mixed reviews and would probably not satisfy my needs as I have read that it has a brighter, more acoustic flattop tone.
So, any thoughts on how to play a V neck without pain or other suitable acoustic archtops with softer shaped necks to consider (say, under $1K new or used) would be greatly appreciated. I'm amazed by the amount of knowledge, talent, and information on this forum!
Thanks,
Bill
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06-07-2018 08:15 PM
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Sorry to hear that. I used to have a Loar 300 and loved the tone but couldn’t get used to the neck so I sold it. I played a Godin and it’s a great guitar, easy to play IMHO but a different tone
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I "feel your pain." Had to part with my 20's dot L5 for the same reason, as much as I liked it.
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Sorry to hear about having to sell the LH-300, blille, and the 20's dot L5, Woody Sound.
I'm wondering if it's less of a problem if you play the guitar on your right thigh where the thumb is wrapped more around the bass side of the neck than in classical position with the thumb centered more on the back of the neck.
And, in comparing the LH-300 to the LH-700, I realized that the V is more pronounced with the LH-300 neck, at least on my guitar. The V is somewhat softer on the LH-700 neck.
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Had the same problem with a Loar 600...great guitar, but couldn't get on with the neck.
The 650, cutaway with floating pickup, does not have the V neck...you could always pull the electronics...
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Thanks for the idea about the 650, mr. beaumont. Wouldn't mind the electronics staying in with the floating pickup as long as the acoustic tone and volume are good enough. Will check out YT videos to see if anyone is playing one acoustically. Doubt that there's one in my area to check out in person.
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If you can play a regular "c" neck shaped guitar without the pain, then that makes the problem clear and the solution obvious.
There are plenty of choices out there.
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Yes, will have to try a C neck guitar for some period of time. Haven't played one of those in a while, but need to do so to pinpoint the problem; whether it's just me or the guitar itself.
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That's why I sold my Loar 700.
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You can have the neck reshaped.
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i have one guitar with a very slight v- a gretsch and one with a mild to moderate v- a yairi. i get along with both just fine, though i have had repetitive motion problems in both thumbs because of work. to this day they fatigue easily in certain situations, and i largely avoid bar chords as a result. i mainly play medium-y thinnish c/d type shapes. not because i prefer them; the guitars i love just happened to have them. i suppose i adapt ok to most shapes, though i certainly prefer what i am used to to a u shape or whatever. maybe i'm still malleable that way. i always read that the chubby necks are best for this sort of thing, but i never really tried one, so who knows?
at any rate, my advice would be to go to a place where there are a lot of guitars and play a lot of guitars. take notes. define parameters and preferences. $15 on amazon will get you some ok-ish digital calipers, so you can measure the guitars you have that work for you, and those that don't. that data will make online shopping easier.
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Like you and others in this thread I struck out playing a V neck. I thought that I would give it a try so I changed the neck in my Strat to be pretty thick but also with a fairly pronounced v shape. After a while I began to realize how much I appreciated my classical guitar which is much flatter in back. I was getting some pain in the pad of my thumb. I pulled the v neck off of my Strat and replaced it with one that has a flatter back profile. I wouldn't hesitate to reshape what you have or try something different.
Originally Posted by Bill Eisele
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Here's what I don't get. Gibson abandoned that neck long ago. Why doesn't Loar? Why do they insist on trying to be historically accurate when it is obviously impractical for most users on a modern guitar. People buy these to *use*, not to put in display cases.
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Rob, sorry to hear that you sold your LH-700, but completely understand. I really enjoyed your YT videos playing the pieces out of the MB Masters of the Plectrum Guitar book on the LH-700 and other guitars. Rob, I played Ren. lute for quite a while and have your Music for the Lute in Scotland book. Got tired of cranky friction pegs constantly slipping, back pain from trying to hold a bowl backed instrument, constantly working on good tone production on double courses, and lack of other local lutenists.
Cunamara, thought about reshaping the neck but I'm not sure I could find someone I could trust in my area to do it correctly and then refinish it back to a reasonable condition.
feet, unfortunately, the tunes I'm working on these days require a lot of bar chords and that seems to aggravate the thumb joint even more. I've heard that the thicker necks make it easier to play those chords, so will take your suggestion about visiting guitar shops, making comparisons both playing and measurement wise with calipers, and taking notes.
lammie200, ah, the beauty of a bolt on neck is the ability to change out necks if one doesn't suit you. Unfortunately, not an option in the traditional archtop world. Started out playing classical guitar, so I have the expectation that the neck on other guitars will feel that way, too, but not always the case.
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Lore (no pun intended) seems to have a lot to do with trends in guitar specs and those trends can dominate one's thoughts. I used to think that something like a conical radius was a mandatory upgrade over a straight radius because so many guitarists touted them, and, from a scientific standpoint, a conical radius made some sense. I don't think that way anymore. Same thing with the V shape. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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Good question, Woody Sound! Not having access to vintage Gibsons from that era, I don't know what liberties Loar took otherwise with these instruments, but I would think these guitars are not slavish copies. So, why don't they go with a more comfortable neck to make a more accessible instrument?
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If I really dug the guitar, this is what I would do. Especially on the more-expensive 700 (assuming you're keeping it because it's a keeper.) Originally Posted by Cunamara
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Is no one going to say this? What has this forum come to? I guess I have to do it ...
You say your v-neck is causing pain? Then maybe try a crew neck or a turtle neck.
JohnLast edited by John A.; 06-08-2018 at 04:38 PM.
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Hah, hah!!! I actually thought about v neck pain related to t-shirts when I wrote the post.
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Moving swiftly on.........
I have the same problem with basal thumb arthritis, and while the steroid injections help, I am advised that my consultant will only give upto four maximum for health reasons.
I happen to have a guitar I use a lot which has a rounded C shape which is the most comfortable for me to gig with, so most of my V or fatter necked guitars have gone. I am awaiting delivery of a 16" archtop built by Dutch luthier Daniel Slaman. He is building it with the same neck profile and thickness as the one I like best, and hopefully it will meet my future needs.
I realise custom building is not always an option, so would endorse the suggestion to find a luthier who will re-shape the neck of one of your guitars to be similar to the classical profile you are comfortable with, even if you have to send it away to a better known one.
Good luck.
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Originally Posted by John A.
I am not sure the OP said the pain was in their neck. With one of these the pain could be elsewhere I suppose. Or maybe not. Originally Posted by Bill Eisele
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Started looking around on the forum for neck reshaping and found a number of posts about reshaping the necks of Loar LH series guitars. I guess it's not surprising. If I could find someone competent to do it, it would definitely be a keeper because it would be personalized for me. Will have to think about it. Originally Posted by ruger9
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I'm thinking I will be told the same thing by the hand surgeon about the maximum number of injections. Originally Posted by bananafist
Yes, a custom guitar would be best from the perspective of having it fit to your physical needs. A custom Daniel Slaman guitar will be wonderful! I hope that, indeed, it does meet your future needs.
I'll have to give some thought to reshaping the neck. If I do that, it's mine forever. I do tend to trade guitars in and out.
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Amusing and disturbing at the same time! Originally Posted by lammie200
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i also play in the classical position and i ended up becoming a thumb wrapper, i guess you'd say. i tend to use my thumb and slightly altered voicings/fingerings to get around most bar chords. i also use capos all the time. i know those last two things are super verboten around here, but it is what it is and i am fine with it. the upside is that i come up with different things because i'm using the guitar in a different way. the downside to that is that thicker necks and wider nuts would make that harder, unless you have larger hands.
come to think of it- have you experimented with nut width? maybe a wider/narrower nut (or string spacing) can alter the feel of the guitar enough to make things easier for you? i have everything from 1 5/8" to just under 2" and manage ok on all of them, but every guitar is different, and the different constructions and varying feels require and inspire different things. another data point you may want to consider.
weirdly, i occasionally find myself pulling the guitar closer into my body with my right arm and not using my left thumb at all. its rare, and tends to happen higher up the neck with a capo, but i've seen it happen.
my doctor and rheumatologist both told me to stop playing, get another job and take pills every day. i didn't do any of those things. and i very rarely experiment with v necks. i'm very much a crew neck guy, but i do love me a good cardigan.
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