Weird finish issue - what's going on here?

**Little Jay** · 06-08-2018, 03:01 AM

I wouldn’t let that little cosmetic flaw bother me and would just enjoy the guitar. Not worth losing any sleep - or playing time! - over.

Personally, it would not even have crossed my mind that a little thing like this could even affect the value of a guitar. But that’s just my ignorance. (And sometimes ignorance really is bless!)

**omphalopsychos** · 06-08-2018, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

I wouldn’t let that little cosmetic flaw bother me and would just enjoy the guitar. Not worth losing any sleep - or playing time! - over.

Personally, it would not even have crossed my mind that a little thing like this could even affect the value of a guitar. But that’s just my ignorance. (And sometimes ignorance really is bless!)

I would agree with you if it were a less collectible guitar. As I said, I'm not a collector, but this particular instrument is in that range of instruments where small issues make a big difference in value. If this were an es-125 or an epiphone triumph that I got a good deal on, I would totally let it slide and just ask the seller to pay for the repair. In fact, I've been in that position and I've done exactly that.

In response to others, I decided to disclose the shop's identity, as a data point for public service. It was Chicago Music Exchange and the guitar was this ES-175. Note that they don't mention the finish issue in the description. Also note that they clearly removed the pickguard to examine the pickup, so there's no way they didn't see the finish issue! I usually like CME because they typically have great customer service. I think many of us have experienced it firsthand. I recall people buying CME deals on Gibson last holiday season. Some were great, and some were less than great. My experience has always been that if they are less than great, CME always took the instrument back and paid for shipping both ways. To me, this meant that they understood the importance of customer lifetime value vs. saving pennies on a single transaction. That is the kind of service I was accustomed to. Maybe it varies by employee because that was not my experience this time. They were deceitful in the advertisement of the product, and they tried to give excuses and did not take responsibility for their error this time. They did not show me that I was valuable to them as a customer. Someone in my situation--i.e. someone who faces the disappointment of receiving an item different from how it was described--should not have to face additional antagonism and resistance when making wholly justified inquiries. Who knows, maybe they're fine and it was just the rep that helped me. But I was really shocked that they responded to my questions by (1) assuming that they know more about vintage guitars than I do and (2) trying to use my presupposed ignorance to deceive me. The examples I cite are that on one occasion, they claimed that a crack was a center seam split, and on this occasion, that the nitro burn was common (i.e. natural) and doesn't affect the value of the instrument because supposedly all vintage guitars have issues like this.

My recommendation is this: if you ever purchase something from Chicago Music Exchange, do it through Reverb. If you do it through them, you will get better customer support because the Reverb staff will be your advocates and prevent you from being bullied by the seller.

**sgosnell** · 06-08-2018, 07:15 PM

Hard to tell from that photo. There are smears all over, and the only thing really in focus is the pickup. The streak doesn't look nearly as bad in that photo as in the original post.

**omphalopsychos** · 06-08-2018, 08:27 PM

Yeah, from the photo it could be anything. There is dust smeared on the finish in other spots, but those turned out to be just dust. The nitro burn is out of focus and in the background. Through the photo alone, there's no way I could have detected it or diagnosed it as a significant issue. In these cases, we depend on sellers to represent their products accurately. With that as context, it should have been up to the seller to mention it, rather than omit it and hope that the buyer never looks behind the pickguard. Anyway, CME did accept responsibility and acknowledged that the defect should have been disclosed. Strangely, the rep told me to dispute the payment with my credit card company because he couldn't guarantee a cash refund. That seemed like a stupid thing for him to say, but I followed his instruction because I feared they wouldn't honor a cash refund. I wonder if he's a new sales rep, I can't imagine that any business would prefer a chargeback over a cash refund. They're paying a fee on top of a refund this way.

**Hammertone** · 06-09-2018, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by omphalopsychos

... I can't imagine that any business would prefer a chargeback over a cash refund. They're paying a fee on top of a refund this way.

Since the same guy who owns CME also owns Reverb, I don't think it matters much.

How about a nice ES-135 instead?

**cosmic gumbo** · 06-09-2018, 03:26 AM

After checking the ad, seeing the vintage guitar listed only as in good condition, which is 5 degrees below new condition, it's a tough call, plus you inspected it in person?

This is Reverb's description of good:

Good
Good condition includes items that are in fine working order but have some visual imperfections here and there. A pedal with scratches and dents on its chassis, a guitar with some cracks in the binding, or maybe an old snare drum with some corrosion on the lugs could all be classified as Good. All of these items work just fine but have enough visual imperfections to only be in the middle of the scale.

To rate it any lower formally precludes it then has playability issues.

BTW, it looks like a sweet guitar.

**omphalopsychos** · 06-09-2018, 03:47 AM

Gumbo, to be fair, you're referring to Reverb's condition definitions, which are not posted on CME's site and therefore not disclosed to an interested customer making a purchase. The only available indicators of the condition are in the text box of the item description. They went into painstaking detail about the dating of the pots and fret wear, but they neglected to mention that there was a glaring issue in the finish.

I went to play it at the shop, but it's a shame I didn't bring a screwdriver with me to remove the pickguards from all the guitars I played. I typically try to have enough trust with a seller not to do something like that.

I'm happy to know others would still be interested in the guitar. It plays great and now has a set of Thomastik Bebop strings on it. If you're ok with paying a premium price for this guitar, it'll be back in their shop and relisted shortly!