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I picked up a Triggs San Salvador from a fellow forumite last week. It showed up at my doorstep on monday I brought it in and let it hang for a while even though the temps have been in the mid 70s which is perfect guitar buying weather. It looked almost mint to me with just one tiny check under the tailpiece. The guitar sounds and plays great and I couldn't be happier. Tuesday I really didn't a chance to play because I had to work late so I opened up the case Wednesday and this is what I found:
OMG I swear I crapped little green men WHAT HAPPENED it was fine on Monday. I sent Jim a picture and he was wondering if somehow it got dropped in shipping and then the change in humidity caused it to check. The box looked fine and my house is fitted with a whole house steam humidifier that keeps it at 50% humidity 24/7. Has anyone ever seen or heard of this happening. Jim said someone might be able to reshoot the guitar with some solvent to try to weld the finish. Does anyone know of someone in the Pacific Northwest that could do this. I'm like Vinny and I like my stuff looking brand new so I'm not going to be able to live with it at its current state
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05-24-2018 09:16 PM
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Sorry to see that on such a beautiful guitar, I hope it can get restored without too much fuss.
Is this out of the realm of an insurance claim?
Did the shipper have it in some type of cargo hold where it was exposed to extreme temps ?
Don't polish it or wipe anything on the surface that might inhibit the checks/finish cracks from getting re-melted together when you get someone to perform the lacquer repair.
John
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Do I understand correctly that you opening it on Monday for a little while, then put it away? Maybe that was enough to cause it. I've never actually observed checking as it happens, so I don't know what the normal time line is. How fast or slow, immediate or delayed, etc.
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Thanks guys the crazing is mostly on the top with just a couple of lines on the back and sides nothing on the neck and no fretboard cracks. I called the 12th fret Portland Oregon and they said they will take a look at the structural integrity. The 12th fret doesn't do refins so does anybody know someone reputable in my area I looked up the average humidity of the area from which it came and it was 70% my house is 50% I'm wondering if that also contributed to it. I have a tele that I have had for a number of years and its pretty worn but I take really good care of my archtops because I like them to look clean.
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I go out of my way to avoid recommending people, because I just never know if someone else's experience will match mine. But since you happen to be in Bend, it's your lucky day.
I would VERY highly recommend getting ahold of Butch Boswell at Boswell Guitars. He used to be based down here, but is in Bend now. He is an absolute pro. I've done builds and repairs for a living most of my adult life, but Butch is on another level.
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personally I'd leave it as is, though I know a lot of folks here want everything perfect/mint.
to me it just adds character, just imo
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Nobody can say for sure what caused this (a lot of guesswork has been expressed, but don't take any of that to the bank). There are many opinions on how to ship a guitar. Some say ship it with strings loosened, some say ship it fully tuned. Some even say to ship it with no strings and remove the tailpiece. In this case, none of that is relevant. All that matters is that checking occurred and that it bothers the owner. It can be fixed, and if that will make the owner enjoy the instrument, it should be fixed. It might need to be refinished and that might change the tone slightly. If it were mine, I would have it fixed.
You will want an expert to do this job. Ted Megas in Portland? Steve Anderson in Seattle? Perhaps sending it back to Triggs is the best option? Good luck!
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At least you got that part worked out.
Originally Posted by no disclaimer
Me too. I don't even use a pick, so most of my guitars look newish except for the tracks on the necks and smudges on the metal pieces. Hope you get this worked out. Probably worth a refinish. Originally Posted by no disclaimer
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Do you have any idea of the ridiculous amount of money Gibson charges to make a guitar look like that?
No, I do sympathize. Personally, I think 50% humidity is kind of high: We keep it around < 30% in our house. That much humidity could cause the wood in the guitar to swell, and since the top, the bracing and the body of the guitar are probably made of different woods, they have different expansion rates, hence the crazing you've experienced.
Also, if the finish of your guitar is nitro cellulose, nitro is a very hard and brittle paint as opposed to the newer paints that use elasticizers, and it probably wouldn't take too much expansion to cause the finish to craze.
Have you experienced any issues with the binding or the neck since you've received the guitar?
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OMG....I feel your pain. Check out Frank Ford’s website Frets.com. See how he almagated a severely checked Martin.
That is what Gibson did to my L5 and then they oversprayed it. LOL.....I know you are not sleeping well. God bless.
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Thanks for the info Butch has a shop 5 min from my house. He wants to look at the guitar to see what he thinks might have happened. I'll let you know what he has to say.
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Vinny! Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
OMG....I feel your pain. Check out Frank Ford’s website Frets.com. See how he almagated a severely checked Martin.
That is what Gibson did to my L5 and then they oversprayed it. LOL.....I know you are not sleeping well. God bless.
Long time no hear! So great to hear your voice, so to speak!
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Something happened here out of the ordinary is my guess. I see no reason that would happen unless a drastic change of temperature or climate. From you describe this is not the case at all. I am at a loss but if something was going to happen it should have when you first took the guitar out from shipping.
Guitars are not completely delicate they should be able to handle some swings in temperature and humidity. Is it possible this guitar was sitting front of a window that was open or sun directly on the case? The only real fix is to refinish the guitar but it could happen again. This checking to me is a bit large and not completely normal checking but nothing I have no seen before either. Sometimes you can see this on guitars that are buff out too early?
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It is also possible that the cracks happened during recovery. Perhaps the guitar was subject to some extreme condition (temperature or humidity) during shipment which didn't cause cracks put but extreme stress on the finish. Cracks happened during the time when guitar was quickly returning back to it's normal condition under the more ideal conditions in your house.
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it was some glitch with the nitro spray, waiting to happen...from the time of manufacture....factory/luthier should repair...sure there are others out there with same..
those finish cracks far outweigh the conditions it was seemingly subjected to....that looks like it was taken from a freezer and put in the trunk of a desert bound car
luck...sorry
cheers
ps- and when i say glitch i mean...wood was not properly cured or not enough drytime between coats or just bad batch/mix of finish (most likely!)...etc etc
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Not actually right Originally Posted by Uncle Vinnie
Here is what Martin tells about Guitars care:
"Your guitar is made of thin wood which is easily affectedby temperature and humidity. This combination is the most
important single part of your guitar’s surroundings. Martin
keeps the factory at a constant 45-55 percent humidity and
72-77 degrees Fahrenheit. If either humidity or temperature
get far away from these factory conditions, your guitar is in
danger. A rapid change in temperature or exposure to cold
can cause small cracks in the finish. These are lacquer
checks. We recommend the use of a hygrometer/thermometer
to measure the relative humidity and temperature surrounding
your guitar"
https://www.martinguitar.com/media/6...e_intl_low.pdf
under 30% you risk drying out and cracks which is far worst than finish check
I would not keep my guitars under 30% or above 65% personally, laminated are more forgiving than solid top, but neck have frets and those don't expand or retract with humidity...
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Builders like Triggs and Campellone still use old school nitro were Gibson now uses a nitro blend that is a little more checking resistant than original nitro.
A big piece of the puzzle is where did the guitar come from ? Those type of checks usually happen when a guitar is overly humidified and then subjected to too much heat. Those are expansion checks not shrinkage checks. Expansion checks are usually more horizontal and shrinkage or cold checks more vertical. Of course that is just a general rule.
Every piece of wood is different and can react against the rules.
My guess call is wet wood subjected to too much heat.
My opinion is it is worth the shipping to send it back to Triggs who made it. He knows exactly what type of lacquer he used and may take on some of the repair cost. It is his guitar. Triggs is a stand up guy also. He also will be able to color match it perfect while someone else will need to guess the color formula he used.
Sometimes these types of disasters in the end turn out to your benefit. My L5 sounds way better after Gibson refinished it. Go figure. LOL and hoping for a happy ending report.
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I had Butch Boswell check it out he said the guitar is structurally sound and thinks it is environmental. He builds guitars here and said even with a humidifier our climate is very hard on guitars. I agree with that somewhat but the fact I have had at least a hundred guitars come into my hands here and have never had that happen before it has to be more than that. Some people love that kind of relecking if you do I'll sell this to you for what I paid for it. Jim said he would refinish the guitar if I want to send it to him but if I wanted to save on shipping I should look for someone in Portland or Seattle. Jim also said to wait a couple of weeks before I do anything.
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[QUOTE=Jim said someone might be able to reshoot the guitar with some solvent to try to weld the finish. Does anyone know of someone in the Pacific Northwest that could do this.[/QUOTE]
You might send that photo to Steve Holst and give him a call. He's a really nice guy and might be able to help you. He's in the Eugene, OR area. I think his luthiery skills are on par with anyone out there.
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In 1973 Gibson returned my '69 JSD that they had repaired under warranty. It had been in flawless cosmetic condition when I sent it to them, but when I opened the case, after it had sat in my house still in the shipping box for several days, it had lines that look just like those in the OP's photo, except that it was even more covered--every surface, front and back. I was horrified and sickened by its appearance.
Gibson had me send it right back and when they returned it, it looked perfect again. I don't know what they did, but it certainly didn't look like it had been refinished. I've never seen this problem again on all the guitars I've had shipped to me or shipped to others. It does not look like normal weather checking.
Danny W.
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I wish my brain could embrace the Wabi-Sabi philosophy. I would be a much happier person. Kudos to you Jabbs !
That type of spiritual level is so much more mentally healthy than my obsessive type A way of thinking.
Hard to change a leopard’s spots. Hopefully I can gravitate to that level like you Jabbs.
Last week I scraped up my car rim on a curb. I bought a new rim. I should have embraced the damaged one.
Anyway back to the topic at hand......
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Different strokes, I suppose. At least in this corner of the planet, for now, it's a free world, so go nuts making your guitar as shiny and perfect as you want.
I was going to refinish this one, but I like the existing finish way too much:
Last edited by Hammertone; 05-26-2018 at 04:31 AM.
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Thanks Jonathan0996 I sent him an email hopefully he has a reply. Jabs I think you hit the nail on the head when you said
The weathered relic-ked guitar look has no traction in the archtop world, I have a tele that fits that bill. I have some nice dinged up nylon strings that I wouldn't dare to refinish. But I love my archtops pristine and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
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Archtops are a Rolls Royce and a tele is a Ford. You do not see RR’s that are all dented and scratched up or even dirty for that matter. A Ford with a different color door and a dented bumper is not a uncommon site. Originally Posted by no disclaimer
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...Unless one collects/plays older archtops, in which case 99.9% of them have some form of lacquer checking, wear, and dings. It just is what it is when it comes to old archtops. Originally Posted by no disclaimer
Relicing a new archtop to make it look old doesn't make much sense to me. My newer archtops looks pretty shiny, and it's nice to keep them that way. I'm sure you can get your new guitar to look new again - it looks like a gorgeous guitar. Post a picture of the back!Last edited by Hammertone; 05-26-2018 at 12:39 AM.
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