New guitar cable/plug = Tone control !!!

**gitman** · 03-31-2018, 12:39 PM

This might be of interest for al of you whose archtop guitar does not have a dedicated/separate tone control on board : I have just soldered up a new cable (15') with one of these new-fangled NEUTRIK Timbre plugs

NP2RX-TIMBRE - Neutrik

and have to admit that the 3 different settings (each setting inserts a different value cap into the signal path, the 1st setting is total bypass) all sound good and absolutely useful. The plug makes the tone control on my
Super-400 and Victor Baker not obsolete but with the amps I tried so far the plug-settings 2 and 3 afford me the warm and smokey Bop tone I like and use most often in my small group settings. The plug does not alter the volume but cuts the highs/moves the resonant peak downward - it's all explained in technical detail on the website. I paid € 17,-/$ 20.00 for the plug, another € 10,- for the 15' Sommer cable plus a normal straight plug.
In a few weeks I will take delivery of a new guitar that will have a floating Kent Armstrong single coil/P90 pickup installed - a tone report re the guitar (name luthier, details tba) and how this new cable works
when it "sees" a single coil pickup will follow. Stay tuned ......

**Spook410** · 03-31-2018, 12:52 PM

Had to go look this up. Find it confusing and would initially dismiss it, but experience trumps assumption so thanks for posting about it. I know that tone control interaction with pickups is more complex than simple roll off. For me however, it's 99% roll off and 1% other stuff going on so I try to use minimal tone control knob and short cables to control EQ farther downstream. That doesn't change how the source sounds however and seems neutrik is hawking an interaction with passive pickups rather than simple roll off. This product uses 3 different cap values so you could vary both the cap and resistance for the 3 settings. Unlike a tone control where the capacitance stays the same. Would be interesting to see how much is simple frequency roll off vs. actually shifting a resonant peak. Also it would depend on the impedance you're plugging into I would think.

**gitman** · 03-31-2018, 01:19 PM

I'm not an electronics wizz, just curious re the outcome and I can only repeat : the sound I get is VERY useful and it's simple to operate, no extra outboard gear involved. Sure beats modding a guitar with an additional pot !

**ccroft** · 03-31-2018, 01:19 PM

Thanks for posting this! Had no idea such a thing existed. One of my arch tops has a floating pickup with Schatten thumbwheel volume under the pick guard, but no tone control. Occasionally I wish I had one. I know it's not exactly the same, but this looks a lot simpler and sounds like it'd do what I want. Looking forward to hearing more.

**Spook410** · 03-31-2018, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by gitman

I'm not an electronics wizz, just curious re the outcome and I can only repeat : the sound I get is VERY useful and it's simple to operate, no extra outboard gear involved. Sure beats modding a guitar with an additional pot !

Had to edit my initial thoughts on this. Initial take was that it was just more roll off but maybe not. And experience always matters more than conjecture.

**sgosnell** · 03-31-2018, 01:51 PM

It's an interesting concept, and I might be tempted to try one if I still used a cable. I have Neutrik plugs on my cables, but they haven't seen the light of day in some time. Wireless works much better for me.

**M.T.Pilot** · 03-31-2018, 03:28 PM

A cool and simple concept, I like it (but have no need for it).

@sgosnell - not wanting to hijack this thread, but which wireless system do you use?

**sgosnell** · 03-31-2018, 06:08 PM

Line6 Relay G10. As close to idiot-proof as it's possible to get, it just works. To my ears it has better tone than any high-end cable. But that's purely subjective. What I like even more is that I'm not attached to any wires.

**Gilpy** · 03-31-2018, 08:25 PM

I'm gonna get one to try. Thanks to th OP for making me aware. I have an archtop that needs a tone control, but this could be a simpler solution.

**yebdox** · 04-01-2018, 12:37 PM

Interesting. I had a couple of cables made with silent Neutriks at both ends, and had a definite high end roll off. Sent them back and had the straight plugs replaced with regular Neutriks, (with a silent angled Neutrik for the guitar end) but still experienced some loss of highs, in comparison to a much cheaper planet waves cable of the same length (and the custom cables used Mogami, which I like.) It was a liveable change, but not something I would like with a strat or tele, really had a significant effect. If the silent mechanism is included in the new fangled ones, I would bet you might still hear a difference with the true bypass setting, vs a solid plug and straight Mogami. It surprised the hell out of me.

**M.T.Pilot** · 04-01-2018, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by sgosnell

Line6 Relay G10.

Thanks, I'm going to look it up.

**icr** · 04-01-2018, 05:57 PM

The effect heard in the video on the Neutrik site makes me think this would be a nice addition to a jazz guitar. Especially an old one with original vintage electronics that one wants to preserve.

**sgosnell** · 04-01-2018, 06:43 PM

I don't think the plug has much effect on tone. It's the capacitance of the cable that makes the difference. But this is an exception, with capacitors in the plug changing the total capacitance of the cable. I have some cables with Neutrik silent plugs, and I notice no difference in tone than with any other plug.

MTP, you can find the Line6 G10 at Guitar Centers everywhere. Any GC should have some in stock, but I wouldn't promise anything to be in stock at any GC. But if they're out, they can get them in a couple of days.

**BeanSinger** · 04-01-2018, 10:17 PM

That is exactly what I need! Where can you buy it?

**yebdox** · 04-02-2018, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by sgosnell

I don't think the plug has much effect on tone. It's the capacitance of the cable that makes the difference. But this is an exception, with capacitors in the plug changing the total capacitance of the cable. I have some cables with Neutrik silent plugs, and I notice no difference in tone than with any other plug.

MTP, you can find the Line6 G10 at Guitar Centers everywhere. Any GC should have some in stock, but I wouldn't promise anything to be in stock at any GC. But if they're out, they can get them in a couple of days.

You should try it. I tested the same mogami cable with non silent neutriks against the same length of cable with one and then both silent neutriks, as well as against a stock planet waves. It was like rolling the tone back to 8 or 9 on the guitar. I compromised and made the straight ends non silent. Don’t miss it as much with an archtop as with single coils and you can add most of it back with a boost pedal, but it’s there, as weird as it sounds. Or rather, it’s NOT there. Go figure.

**gitman** · 04-02-2018, 09:42 AM

As with most guitars the values of the pickups and pots in the circuit varies so the effect of the added capacitance that this plug offers will differ from one guitar to the other - I find that it works great on my humbucker- equipped intsruments. I also don't hear a significant change/drop in volume that I would want to
compensate, it's certainly no more noticable than with a twist of the tonepot.
As said before: I view it mainly as a solution for guitars that have no tone control on board.
You should be able to buy it online at an electronics webshop, on ebay or amazon.

**sgosnell** · 04-02-2018, 12:22 PM

I've never used Mogami cables. Mine use George L cable, and Neutrik plugs. I have some with George L plugs, and some with Switchcraft plugs, and I hear no difference at all with different plugs, not the standard Neutrik nor the silent ones. I've never tried using silent plugs on both ends, though, I don't see what good that would do. One is enough for me.

**Fred Archtop** · 04-02-2018, 01:09 PM

Hey Jazzers,

It's been 2 years or so that I have one. It was offered to me by Daniel Slaman when I got my DS250. I am using it with some of my archtops and I must say it is interesting. When you get the sweet tone with your amp and your tone knob, then you can adjust finely your sound. Not sure I would have got one if it wasn't a gift, but since I have it it's cool.

Cheers.

**yebdox** · 04-07-2018, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by sgosnell

I've never used Mogami cables. Mine use George L cable, and Neutrik plugs. I have some with George L plugs, and some with Switchcraft plugs, and I hear no difference at all with different plugs, not the standard Neutrik nor the silent ones. I've never tried using silent plugs on both ends, though, I don't see what good that would do. One is enough for me.

It was a pretty dramatic effect, but I can only speak to my own experience, with both humbuckers and single coils. Having a silent plug at both ends with one angled plug made it more versatile, so one could use the straight end on a strat, or angled on a Gibson. It was less of an influence after removing one silent plug. I'm not one of those who worries about carbon zinc vs alkaline batteries, but this was pretty significant. You would just have to try it sometime to see. Not a big issue, but much more than I would have thought.

**sgosnell** · 04-07-2018, 10:08 AM

I doubt I'll try it, since I rarely use cables anyway. I haven't looked back since I went wireless. It's not just the lack of a cable, although that's a big deal, but it's also the difference in sound. With wireless the capacitance issue is gone, and the highs are much more audible and present. If you want to hear how much influence the cable or the plug has, try listening with the same equipment, with and without the cable.

**oldane** · 04-07-2018, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by sgosnell

Line6 Relay G10. As close to idiot-proof as it's possible to get, it just works. To my ears it has better tone than any high-end cable. But that's purely subjective. What I like even more is that I'm not attached to any wires.

Based on your recommendation I ordered one of these from Thomann. It just works. No need to do anything but plugging in. I can't detect any significant tone difference but then my ears are not what they once were. However, eliminating my ever so frequent tripping on the cable and the resulting damage risk alone is worth it. Add to that the greater freedom for moving around.

**yebdox** · 04-07-2018, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by sgosnell

I doubt I'll try it, since I rarely use cables anyway. I haven't looked back since I went wireless. It's not just the lack of a cable, although that's a big deal, but it's also the difference in sound. With wireless the capacitance issue is gone, and the highs are much more audible and present. If you want to hear how much influence the cable or the plug has, try listening with the same equipment, with and without the cable.

Interesting! Don’t run into too many jazz players who run wireless. I imagine there would be quite a difference! Some folks really like the addition of a certain amount of impedance through cabling to their tone, but not me. I haven’t done a lot of investigation, just settled on mogami from recommendations from tone monsters and friends, but planet waves sound good to me, too. But I can’t stand Monster cable, harsh, thin to my ears.

I have more of an issue with tone suck through my pedal board, and am about to pull the trigger on one of the new ones from voodoo labs with the built in loop switches and power supply. I hate what my current board does to my archtops, even with extra buffering. I think its my TC Nova pedals that suck the most overtones away. Some detective work to do. Cheers

**sgosnell** · 04-07-2018, 09:11 PM

Jazz players tend to be traditionalists. But there are several members here who use the G10. It certainly has advantages, although cost is not one of them.

**yebdox** · 04-08-2018, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by sgosnell

Jazz players tend to be traditionalists. But there are several members here who use the G10. It certainly has advantages, although cost is not one of them.

Always something new, will have to check it out, thanks!

**lawson-stone** · 04-08-2018, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by sgosnell

Jazz players tend to be traditionalists. But there are several members here who use the G10. It certainly has advantages, although cost is not one of them.

I use the G10 and do indeed love it. Look at what you'd pay for a couple of "high-end" cables and other signal chain stuff. You could almost get the G10 for it.