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I'm wondering how the Guild Westerly Guitars with Bob Benedetto’s signature and “Benedetto Signature” designation compare to the Savannah built Benedetto models playingwise and soundwise. Are the Savannah built ones superior? If yes in what way?
Thanks
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03-30-2018 07:57 PM
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Oh, you said playingwise and soundwise. I deleted my comments as they were not germane to the discussion.
The 25 5/8th" scale length of the Westerly Guild Bene AA gives it a tauter bass with more snap. The trebles are brighter. Savannah Benes have the Johnny Smith scale length: 25".
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Having been fortunate enough to have tried Benedettos and Guild Benedettos and spent a fair amount of time with both in my hands, I can speak about the individual instruments I knew. That being said, I loved the responsiveness of the Benedettos, and they really epitomized the essential multi dimensional sound qualities of a really nice high end hand built guitar. The two Guild Benedettos (AA) I tried were really disappointing to me. Nice, and pretty, but sound and feel, they felt like a guitar built on the heavy side and for my own tastes, they couldn't compare with the Guild AA (which I personally own) or the Benedetto.
Keep in mind that I don't play with a pick, I don't strum chords and I don't play heavy, which means I don't drive the top as much as someone else might, so to them, the reaction may be different. Also I did NOT have the instruments side by side to assure that action and set up were identical, and that can make a HUGE difference.
So take this all with a grain of lacquer, but this did have a big part of my never really having a desire to get a Benedetto Guild.
I have a Gibson Johnny Smith, a Westerly Guild Artist Award and I presently play a custom so I am pretty opinionated when it comes to how I feel about a guitar. Benedetto Guild looked better on paper than in my hands, it just didn't inspire me.
David
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When it comes to Benedetto guitars, there are several "different" choices:
Real Benedettos built by Bob himself. (Having played a few of these, I can say with certainty that these are head and shoulders above the rest)
Guild Benedettos built in Westerly. (Artist Awards and Stuarts)...These are more "Guild" than Benedetto, and at the same time more "Benedetto" than Guild (If that makes any sense). These are fine guitars, but Bob told me himself that he considered these to be Guilds, not Benedettos.
Guild Benedettos built in Nashville. Nice guitars, all designed by Bob and built by someone else.
Guild Benedettos built in Corona, CA (Both Guild models and all the Benedetto models (including a Frank Vignola model) were made here). Thick finishes on these guitars. The Guild Benedetto Artist Award became the Guild-Benedetto Johnny Smith Award here (after a time). Still nice guitars, some built by Steven Stern who was trained by Jimmy D'Aquisto and Bob Benedetto.
Benedettos built in the Savannah shop. Nice guitars, all designed by Bob and built by someone else.
Ain't nothing like the real thing baby....my advice is get one built by Bob if you can. You do get what you pay for.
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How can identify if a guitar is built by the master ? During which years did he build himself?
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Bob pretty much left the building to others around the time of the Fender/Corona deal which was late 90's. My understanding is that he did build a few personally after that time. Before you take the plunge on anything after that period, I would be looking closely at any documentation as to who/where the guitar was built. Although if I found a super fine instrument that he supervised construction of at the right price I'd sure not let that stop me from buying it. Originally Posted by JazzNote
Like Stringswinger, I have encountered all flavors and held out for a Bob built 1990 Cremona. It just spoke to me and remains my working instrument and probably will be till I'm pushing up daisies. I deeply love the instrument and it was worth every penny I spent on it. As I have posted before, I was saving for a new vehicle and when she showed up without hesitation I bought her and opted to drive my older car for a few years.
No regrets. EVER.
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Here is a link with Benedetto timeline and licensing ventures.
Robert Benedetto - Wikipedia
In my opinion, based on owning and playing many Benedetto's - his golden period is best represented by the Stroudsburg PA builds. Everything after this period is built by associates who followed his build formular, or whatever portions he was willing to reveal.
Ive played a few post Bob made builds and some were very good and others not so.
DHR has a corona build for $6900, which might be of interest to OP. Also, Reverb member " Daves gear locker" owned several Savanagh and Corona builds and stated the corona ones were much better.
Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk
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I've got one of the Corona builds signed by Johnny Smith. It started life as a burst in Rudy's and Patrick Amato hand picked it out of three in the store and told Marty Grass this was THE ONE he should get and shipped it to him .. Well, the guitar got very very finish checked in shipment and Marty took it to Pete Moreno. Pete said the thing had way too much finish on it and took it down to the bare wood and refinished it natural. The doggone thing is a sight to behold and play. And yeah I always wanted one of the Cremona guitars from his Stroudsburg days...
Big
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The current Savannah builds are good, IMO. Damon Mailand, the current supervisor, was Bob's apprentice for a long time, and took over when Bob retired. I personally wouldn't buy one of the Fender-built guitars, but I have no actual experience with them. The pre-Fender guitars that Bob personally built are expensive. I owned an early specimen for awhile, but I was afraid to play it, worried that I might scratch it. It wasn't a great-sounding guitar, probably because it was ~40 years old and had probably been played for a total of less than 10 hours. I sold it for a good profit and don't miss it. I do like my Savannah-built models very much though, and they're as good as any I've ever played. I don't think you'll find a better guitar of any make.
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I would think of the Artist Award and Stuart Benedetto signature models (and the Johnny Smith Awards) as Guilds with a Benedetto influence. These can be superb guitars (I recently sold a superb example of a Westerly made GBAA to a fellow forum member) and can be simply a good guitar (I had an earlier Westerly GBAA that was a good guitar, but nothing special). These are different than the earlier Guilds of the same models. Not better or worse, just different.
Like QAman, I have played some fine post Bob builds and some downright average at best ones. Pre 1999 builds are made by Bob. He continued to make a few after 1998 himself, but I would want documentation proving any Benedetto made after 1998 was actually made by Bob. IMO, long term resale value of the guitars actually made by Bob (who is truly one of the all time master luthiers) will be substantially higher that those made by the Fender/Guild company or by Howard Paul's enterprise. Think of the difference in value of a genuine D'Aquisto and the Fender D'Aquistos or the Hagstrom D'Aquistos and you will see why my prediction is what it is.
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Pricing on Bob built Benedetto’s has taken a hit as a result of all the joint ventures. Based on my ongoing review of Archtop market - and regardless of posted ASKING prices,
Stroudsburg period guitars ( Manhattan and Fratello) are selling in the 8-10k range. The used market on Guild or Corona ( fenderdettos)- $4500-$5500, and since not many Fratellos or Manhattens are actually sold from Savanagh it’s hard to tell on those used sales.
Savanagh’s main product is the Bravo , with occasional 16B’s and Americana’s - the later two are tough sales since they approach used selling prices on Bob built guitars. One of our forum members bought a mint unplayed Bob built Manhattan last year for $8500.
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I have played many Benedetto’s that Bob built himself. Unless Bob built the guitar I would not be interested in them at all. The only Benedetto s that hold my interest that he built are the fully acoustic with a floater. I go back to Bob in the late 70’s and he was in Homassasa Springs in Florida. I was visiting relatives and stop by his shop he had it in the garage.
He was very friendly and he knew I hung around Barker’s shop and played a Barker. He and Bill Barker later got together and spent some time at Benedetto s shop. Barker use to travel to Florida for warmer weather in winter. There is something to be said about a guy out carving and building his own archtop then, not many were other than Barker and DAquisto a few others. Those were the days when carved top guitars really were only keep track of by a few jazz guitarist in the know.
Once you start going commercial and lending name a talent things change. It is not necessarily bad but different and hard to explain. Business was probably much better for Bob but i still like the independent part. Back then you had to work a finding true carved tops. You had to go all the way out to Greenport on LI, Jimmy D would build you a guitar. You had to find Benedetto, Barker, Albanus, and maybe Bory’s. Now you just hit the internet search.
No, for me I would only want a Benny by Bob. Qman has it down and SS. Bob’s guitar made for Chinery Blue......now that is one fine sounding guitar.
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As i found an ad for a Guild Benedetto Stuart for sale in Germany in the Sale section i was wondering what similarities there are to non Guild Benedettos. Thanks to the above comments i realize that i couldn't get a clue how a Benedetto feels or sounds if i'd take the effort to try out the Stuart. But certainly my interest in Bob Benedettos guitars is raised.
I much appreciate all the help!
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Jazznote, that GB Stuart for sale on this forum is a great deal. The only issue is some binding shrinkage in the waist which could be easily fixed. I have played one of those Westerly made GB Stuarts and it was a fine guitar. With the slightly longer scale length, slightly smaller nut size and metal tailpiece, it will sound different from a carved 17 inch Benedetto with built in PUPS and it also sounds different from a Gibson L-5 or even an earlier Guild Stuart. At that price, if the guitar is not far from you, it is worth a drive to check it out Originally Posted by JazzNote
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Stringswinger, it's still too far from me to check it out as i certainly don't intend to buy knowing that it doesn't have that Benedetto "feel & voice" which is praised so often. So far i have never had a chance to play a Benedetto and if this Stuart could be considered to be one i'd take the effort. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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I have a 1989 Fratello, built by Bob when he was in Florida. It is a great guitar. I agree that all the licensing etc. has probably put downward pressure on the pricing of the originals. I think an original Fratello or Manhattan (built by Bob) in the $8-10K range would be a good buy. They were going for that much many years ago. I have played many of them and they were consistently excellent guitars. I did play a few early Fender/Guild Manhattans that were very good, but they don’t have the provenance of an original. All of the Savannah guitars I have played were all Bravos, Bucky Pizzarelli models, etc. They were very nice guitars too, but not as high end as the more expensive models. I haven’t played a Manhattan or Fratello from Savannah so I can’t compare one of those to an original. Originally Posted by QAman
KeithLast edited by floatingpickup; 04-01-2018 at 08:09 AM.
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Keith, i just sent you a pm Originally Posted by floatingpickup
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I did want to point out-if you can obtain a copy of Bob's book "Making an Archtop Guitar" there is documentation of his production via serial numbers starting in 1968 thru about mid 1994.
Although the book is focused on his building process, there is other great information in the book. Nice professional color photos of his models and his take on marketing his instruments. Even if you don't buy a Benedetto it's a great resource book to have in your library.
P.S. The story goes that the Eastman crew bought this book (I believe there is also a video) to get their cello builders trained on building carved archtops)
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